Would it make sense to get a stamp for Covid vax right on your passport.

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

Correct.  Then then those not legitimate in a country would have to present themselves to enable any official status documentation protocol to be initiated.

 

You’re a true humanitarian.

[PORT ROYAL]

3 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

So basically you're advocating the creation of an underground "black market" for vaccinations.  Do you see that as a good thing?

 

Feel the system should be one giving vaccinations only to the legitimate, with an opportunity for those not legitimate to present themselves.

 

 

 

[Heidi13]

14 hours ago, clo said:

But would it be accepted by countries and cruise lines? This isn't something where you want to make a mistake. But I'm guessing that we won't be guessing 🙂 much longer. Now that the CDC has warned that NO ONE should be cruising right now I think we have a while for the various nuts and bolts to get sorted out.

 

The Vaccination Record booklet has been accepted by every country I have visited that required proof of vaccinations and also cruise lines I have worked/cruised with, for the past 45 years.

 

Don't expect it to change.

[clo]

6 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The Vaccination Record booklet has been accepted by every country I have visited that required proof of vaccinations and also cruise lines I have worked/cruised with, for the past 45 years.

 

Don't expect it to change.

There's been talk of having the vaccination record being linked to one's passport. And if this is something to get annually (or even or even more often), well, that's another piece of the puzzle.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Thanks for highlighting the glaring problem in the poster's logic.  The WW2 style "get em' all bagged and tagged" brigade seem unable to understand the basic facts which are that:

 

1.  No vaccine is 100% effective so a vaccination stamp or equivalent doesn't carry much weight at all as there is no way to tell if the vaccines is working for that person

 

2.  There are plenty of examples of vaccinated people having spread diseases to others so again a vaccination stamp or certificate is no guarantee.  Until there are clinical studies categorically proving that Covid vacinees can not and do not spread Covid any certification is toothless.

 

Proper testing is the only way

 

 

Neither is testing 100% accurate, for example look what happened on the Sea Breeze.

 

A false negative is very likely for someone who just caught the virus. And since many come by airplane to their cruise port, one should seriously consider how "dangerous" the airport itself is towards the risk of catching the virus. Has anyone ever experienced a socially distanced airport?

[Heidi13]

7 minutes ago, clo said:

There's been talk of having the vaccination record being linked to one's passport. And if this is something to get annually (or even or even more often), well, that's another piece of the puzzle.

 

Although not unsurmountable, passport records could present a challenge, especially in the US where many people travel that travel outside the country do not have a passport. They would also have to address passport renewals. Another challenge is that many do not renew our passports in the country of residence.

 

However, at least in UK, passports have been used to track more than entry/exit stamps, as we used to have foreign exchange transactions recorded in our passports, back in the early 70's.

[cbr663]

1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Thanks for highlighting the glaring problem in the poster's logic.  The WW2 style "get em' all bagged and tagged" brigade seem unable to understand the basic facts which are that:

 

1.  No vaccine is 100% effective so a vaccination stamp or equivalent doesn't carry much weight at all as there is no way to tell if the vaccines is working for that person

 

2.  There are plenty of examples of vaccinated people having spread diseases to others so again a vaccination stamp or certificate is no guarantee.  Until there are clinical studies categorically proving that Covid vacinees can not and do not spread Covid any certification is toothless.

 

Proper testing is the only way

 

 

 

Yes, the gold standard with vaccines is sterilizing immunity - the virus doesn't get a grip in the body at all.  Basically akin to a circuit breaker that we are hearing more and more.  My understanding though is that sterilizing immunity is very hard to achieve in coronavirus.  The current vaccines apparently provide functional immunity in that they lessen the impacts of the disease.

 

How this will play out on cruise ships is anyone's guess.  It does suggest though that even with the vaccine you can very well expect that once cruise ships start sailing that there will be COVID outbreaks onboard.  I agree with another of your posts that once there is a certain level of cases that the ship will go into quarantine mode.  

[KnowTheScore]

34 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Neither is testing 100% accurate, for example look what happened on the Sea Breeze.

 

 

That's why you have multiple tests not singular ones, to remove that chance of false results.

[KnowTheScore]

18 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

I agree with another of your posts that once there is a certain level of cases that the ship will go into quarantine mode.  

 

It's a condition of the sail orders that they do so, they have no choice.  What is not known (at least to the public) is what that threshold is.  I think cruise lines should come clean and publicise it because I think it will determine for a lot of people whether they will cruise again.   If the number is low like say 5 cases then I think that would put a lot of people off.  You'll have lots of cruises with such cases imo.

 

If the number is higher like say 30 cases then people will have more confidence that their cruise will manage to be a reasonable one rather than a prison ship confined to the seas.

[sverigecruiser]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

No matter how widespread it is in a country, they do not want it to get worse.

 

But a few extra cases make absolutely no difference.

 

I don't think that any of the countries in my example (Italy, Spain and France) should refuse a cruiseship to dock with a few cases as the situation is now. (I said think so it's not something I know.)

[PORT ROYAL]

31 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

But surely those who are not legitimate will not wish to present themselves so as I said you will simply end up with a black market of vaccinations and drugs.

It’s the choice of those not legitimate, if or not, to attend a Government controlled/authorised  facility to receive a vaccination.

Legitimates will also have the same choice.

Don’t think there will be enough free product available to maintain a buoyant black market, so fake vaccines will appear, with those not legitimate probably having to make a simple choice.  Take the risk with a possible ‘no refunds’ fake or present.  

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by PORT ROYAL
Typo

[Markanddonna]

It seems that a vaccine record electronically attached to a passport makes sense. Then, if the medical community discovers you need a booster or new shot every year, the attachment could have an expiration date.  Anything that the WHO works on is likely to be flawed.  Sigh.

[donaldsc]

How about we use implantable micro chips in the same way we use pet trackers.  The micro chip could  be updated externally.  

 

DON

[neverbeenhere]

Yes, great plan!!! In a pandemic situation, we want certain individuals that you are judging to be “illegitimate” to have a reason not to get a vaccine. Apparently there still is a lack of understanding of how a virus spreads and is sustained. 

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Feel the system should be one giving vaccinations only to the legitimate, with an opportunity for those not legitimate to present themselves.

 

 

 

So people who are "illegitimate" should not be allowed to get the vaccine? Should they be allowed to get medical care when they get sick? Or should they just be allowed to spread the contagious disease?

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

How about we use implantable micro chips in the same way we use pet trackers.  The micro chip could  be updated externally.  

 

DON

I hope you are being sarcastic. You have trouble getting people to wear masks and social distance and at the same time expect people to have microchips implanted.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

But a few extra cases make absolutely no difference.

 

I don't think that any of the countries in my example (Italy, Spain and France) should refuse a cruiseship to dock with a few cases as the situation is now. (I said think so it's not something I know.)

A few extra cases can make quite a difference if the hospital ICUs are filled to capacity. Though I guess if that was still the case, cruises would not be happening.

[sverigecruiser]

9 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

A few extra cases can make quite a difference if the hospital ICUs are filled to capacity. Though I guess if that was still the case, cruises would not be happening.

 

Agree with what you said.

 

Most infected don't need ICU so that's an even smaller problem. If a cruise should have 10 infected at least 9 should probably have mild symptoms and 1 at most may need medical care and most likely not ICU. 

[cbr663]

3 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

It's a condition of the sail orders that they do so, they have no choice.  What is not known (at least to the public) is what that threshold is.  I think cruise lines should come clean and publicise it because I think it will determine for a lot of people whether they will cruise again.   If the number is low like say 5 cases then I think that would put a lot of people off.  You'll have lots of cruises with such cases imo.

 

If the number is higher like say 30 cases then people will have more confidence that their cruise will manage to be a reasonable one rather than a prison ship confined to the seas.

 

I wonder if the threshold for COVID is the same as the threshold for Influenza-Like Illness, which is 1.38 per 1000 traveller days?  My first response though is that the threshold for COVID is lower, given its ease of transmission and its impact on human life on a cruise ship.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/reporting-deaths-illness/how-calculate-influenza-influenza-like-illness-case-outbreak-threshold-cumulative-reports.html

[evandbob]

18 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Agree with what you said.

 

Most infected don't need ICU so that's an even smaller problem. If a cruise should have 10 infected at least 9 should probably have mild symptoms and 1 at most may need medical care and most likely not ICU. 

 Possibly, but would you want to be the critical case on a cruise ship who requires ICU or hospitalization in port and can't get it because all the beds are filled?

 

For a policy to work, most possibilities have to be examined and have contingency plans if ever needed.

Edited December 3, 2020 by evandbob

[sverigecruiser]

9 minutes ago, evandbob said:

 Possibly, but would you want to be the critical case on a cruise ship who requires ICU or hospitalization in port and can't get it because all the beds are filled?

 

For a policy to work, most possibilities have to be examined and have contingency plans if ever needed.

 

I don't think that there will be any cruises if that's a possibility.

 

 

[K32682]

A passport stamp may not be required as immunization status could be included in the information available when your documents are swiped by a border official.  Also weighing against using a passport more broadly is that many people don't have them and proof of immunization requirements may be more widespread than simply international travel.  A document proving immunization may (should?) be required for domestic travel, employment, access to health care, sporting events, concerts, etc.  

[sverigecruiser]

44 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 A document proving immunization may (should?) be required for domestic travel, employment, access to health care, sporting events, concerts, etc.  

 

That will not happen in Sweden except for that healtcare workers might need the vaccination.

[Underwatr]

There's already a document on which you document travel vaccines you received, and it's not your passport.

[Hlitner]

On 12/5/2020 at 8:35 AM, K32682 said:

A passport stamp may not be required as immunization status could be included in the information available when your documents are swiped by a border official.  Also weighing against using a passport more broadly is that many people don't have them and proof of immunization requirements may be more widespread than simply international travel.  A document proving immunization may (should?) be required for domestic travel, employment, access to health care, sporting events, concerts, etc.  

Domestic travel?  In countries like the USA, Canada and Mexico that would not work except possibly with the airlines.  Even within the Schengen countries this would unlikely work.  Why?  Automobiles!  I am also doubtful that the Schengen countries would impose some kind of check on trains.   I do think its a great idea when it comes to sporting events, concerts, and other similar events where there is a reasonably way to inspect documents of the crowd as they enter a facility.  As to flying this is the easiest to handle.  In fact there could be a simple check just to enter any airport.  It could even be done with few people since an app on one's phone with a QC code could trigger an automated gate.  

 

Hank