Covid-19 Vaccinations To Be Required?

[clo]

4 minutes ago, ORV said:

Are you serious? In case you are, all of the Butlers for the suites on Oceania are from India. 

So the job title is a capital B???????????????????????

[ORV]

6 minutes ago, clo said:

So the job title is a capital B???????????????????????

What's your point? If you're trying to comment on grammar or punctuation that's not allowed by CC. 

[clo]

Just now, ORV said:

What's your point? If you're trying to comment on grammar or punctuation that's not allowed by CC. 

I was being silly. Had no idea why one would capitalize a non-name. And I DO have Butlers not butlers in my family.

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I believe the difference of opinion derives from one view of safety. The two vaccines currently in use here gives 94-95 percent protection. I’m happy with that. However, it appears some, because of their personal limitations, revolt and talk down anything less than 100% safety. Anything less than 100% draws ire and questionage. 
 

If you only accept 100%, continue to hunker at home. I don’t see us meeting your requirements in my lifetime.

I too am quite happy with 94 - 95% protection - never said I would accept nothing less than 100%.

Is the Russian vaccine also 95% effective?

PS Astra Zeneca is far less than 95% effective though not in use here as yet.

[BenMurphy]

I should jolly well hope so

[floridatravelersforlife]

From the reverse perspective a 5% chance of catching Covid pales when compared the other medical chances of failure.  I had my share of medical procedures  and  many had odds of failure of more than 5% including stents, surgeries and the like.  If I had avoided these,  I'd be in bad shape or six feet under.  Bring it on. 

[Tranquility Base]

What will be interesting to me is what the new Covid protocols will be for a fully vaccinated ship both onboard, and in countries worldwide.

 

After all, the average efficacy across a ship may be  85% as an example.

What will the procedure be if Covid is discovered onboard ? 

 

What will various countries require to enter ?

How will those countries react to Covid on a ship with everyone vaccinated ?

A certain percentage of their own population vaccinated is most likely ?

Some countries will likely be more willing to open, others who may be important to an itinerary or a cruising region may be considerably more cautious.

 

Lots of questions.

Lots of answers needed, protocols,and procedures to be agreed upon, tested, monitored.

Lots of time needed to accomplish.

[pinotlover]

10 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

What will be interesting to me is what the new Covid protocols will be for a fully vaccinated ship both onboard, and in countries worldwide.

 

After all, the average efficacy across a ship may be  85% as an example.

What will the procedure be if Covid is discovered onboard ? 

 

What will various countries require to enter ?

How will those countries react to Covid on a ship with everyone vaccinated ?

A certain percentage of their own population vaccinated is most likely ?

Some countries will likely be more willing to open, others who may be important to an itinerary or a cruising region may be considerably more cautious.

 

Lots of questions.

Lots of answers needed, protocols,and procedures to be agreed upon, tested, monitored.

Lots of time needed to accomplish.

Fortunately my next booked cruise isn’t until November with a PIF date in late June. I fully expect most of those questions will be answered by June. Far to early in the process to expect any answers now. I’ll patiently wait until then. 
 

If the plan is to continually dream up excuses why not to sail, isn’t it better to just not plan on sailing?

[clo]

10 hours ago, Tranquility Base said:

Lots of time needed to accomplish.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^  I don't see cruising this year in the US.

[deadzone1003]

On 1/6/2021 at 1:35 PM, Paulchili said:

What do you know about the Chinese vaccine? How effective and safe is it?

Without having the answers to those questions it’s not certain that the crew will actually be protected. They may be but they (and thus we)may not.

Sinopharm has a 79% efficacy rate, but it has 73 known side effects so far.  It is a state owned company.  Sinovac has a reported 50% efficacy rate, but it is a private company.  Pick your poison.  If Oceania use Sinovac, half the crew could develop covid19 if exposed to the virus, theoretically.  All this means is there is no 100% protection from a vaccine, just the lowering the probability of catching the disease as well as reducing the severity of the disease if you do catch it.

[hamrag]

4 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

....All this means is there is no 100% protection from a vaccine, just the lowering the probability of catching the disease as well as reducing the severity of the disease if you do catch it.

 

In other words, similar to any other vaccine for COVID-19 or for any other virus!

[Paulchili]

4 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

Sinovac has a reported 50% efficacy rate, but it is a private company.  Pick your poison. If Oceania use Sinovac, half the crew could develop covid19 if exposed to the virus, theoretically. 

That was my point.

We may have a vaccine with 95% efficiency but if the crew has only 50% infection protection you may feel safe but the cruise will be over if any of the crew test positive..

[GICNJC]

Canada' new air travel rules to enter Canada requires a negative PCR test within 72 hours of flight.  It applies even if you have been vacinated.   I think this will be the gold standard for the forsee able future.

[susiesan]

2 hours ago, GICNJC said:

Canada' new air travel rules to enter Canada requires a negative PCR test within 72 hours of flight.  It applies even if you have been vacinated.   I think this will be the gold standard for the forsee able future.

If this becomes the standard for flights into the US, including for citizens, international cruising will decline substantially. The problem with the PCR test is getting results back as these tests have to be sent to a lab. Americans disembarking in a foreign country would have to get off the ship, find a place in the city they are in , get a test, and hope they can fly home. Everyone will have to spend 3 extra days at the end of their cruise at their expense instead of getting off the ship and flying home the same day. The tests will not be free, just one more expense to be added to a cruise vacation. This would be a turn off for me. I will still travel internationally as I can factor in the testing to my overall plan itinerary, but I won't be taking any more cruises. Too complicated.

[Tranquility Base]

1 hour ago, susiesan said:

If this becomes the standard for flights into the US, including for citizens, international cruising will decline substantially. The problem with the PCR test is getting results back as these tests have to be sent to a lab.

As you know, Viking has already installed a PCR lab on one of their ships.

I don't know what other cruise lines are doing similar, but perhaps it may be made mandatory 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Tranquility Base

[ORV]

11 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

Sinopharm has a 79% efficacy rate, but it has 73 known side effects so far.  It is a state owned company.  Sinovac has a reported 50% efficacy rate, but it is a private company.  Pick your poison.  If Oceania use Sinovac, half the crew could develop covid19 if exposed to the virus, theoretically.  All this means is there is no 100% protection from a vaccine, just the lowering the probability of catching the disease as well as reducing the severity of the disease if you do catch it.

Since you're not the most credible source here would you mind citing where you're getting your information? 

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, susiesan said:

If this becomes the standard for flights into the US, including for citizens, international cruising will decline substantially. The problem with the PCR test is getting results back as these tests have to be sent to a lab. Americans disembarking in a foreign country would have to get off the ship, find a place in the city they are in , get a test, and hope they can fly home. Everyone will have to spend 3 extra days at the end of their cruise at their expense instead of getting off the ship and flying home the same day. The tests will not be free, just one more expense to be added to a cruise vacation. This would be a turn off for me. I will still travel internationally as I can factor in the testing to my overall plan itinerary, but I won't be taking any more cruises. Too complicated.

Tests could be made a part of the service the line provides.  Tests could be administered three days before the end of the cruise and the results could be waiting for you on disembarkation.   They would just need to figure out the logistics of getting the samples to a lab on a timely basis.  Drones could be a potential solution.

[Paulchili]

45 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

 They would just need to figure out the logistics of getting the samples to a lab on a timely basis.  Drones could be a potential solution.

See post # 192 above.

No need for drones - just have a lab on the ship equipped to do the testing (as Viking has already done)..

[deadzone1003]

1 hour ago, ORV said:

Since you're not the most credible source here would you mind citing where you're getting your information? 

Have you considered just Googling "Sinopharm, Sinovac vaccine:" to see what you come up with if you think I am not credible.   Even if everyone on the ship is vaccinated with the Pfizier vaccine, supposedly with 95% efficacy, when you are sailing on Marina with 1200 passengers capacity, 60 of the passengers are probably capable of catching the disease.  The odds of someone catching the virus is, of course, much lower when they have been vaccinated, but the probability of catching the disease is never at 0.  When it takes only 1 passenger to get sick with the virus to throw your cruise into chaos, you should be aware of the possible consequences.  

Right now, I have a cruise in November.  I expect in order for me to board the ship, Sirena, I will have to show proof of vaccination.  I do not plan to get my vaccine shots until August or September as I am leary of potential long term side effects.  Moderna will be my 1st choice as quality control on Pfizier vaccine I consider iffy because of the very low storage temperature requirement even though I consider mRNA vaccines to be the riskiest vaccines to take, it is offset by the feeling that they may be the most effective vaccine for covid19.  

[Tranquility Base]

On 1/8/2021 at 6:24 AM, Tranquility Base said:

What will be interesting to me is what the new Covid protocols will be for a fully vaccinated ship both onboard, and in countries worldwide.

 

After all, the average efficacy across a ship may be  85% as an example.

What will the procedure be if Covid is discovered onboard ? 

 

 

41 minutes ago, deadzone1003 said:

  When it takes only 1 passenger to get sick with the virus to throw your cruise into chaos, you should be aware of the possible consequences.  

 

It shouldn't be chaos.

 

It should be a predetermined set of protocols & procedures agreed to by the various authorities in charge of the various regions / countries the cruise is visiting.

 

These should be fully and clearly laid out in the passenger contract before you proceed on the cruise.

 

That's what should happen.

 

I think the cruise lines will be working very hard at making sure Covid incidents are conducted in a pre described and orderly manner.

They certainly won't be wanting any more negative press.

 

 

Then it's a matter for each and every passenger to way up the risk versus the reward.

Something we do most days, one way or the other.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Tranquility Base

[deadzone1003]

1 hour ago, Tranquility Base said:

 

It shouldn't be chaos.

 

It should be a predetermined set of protocols & procedures agreed to by the various authorities in charge of the various regions / countries the cruise is visiting.

 

These should be fully and clearly laid out in the passenger contract before you proceed on the cruise.

 

That's what should happen.

 

I think the cruise lines will be working very hard at making sure Covid incidents are conducted in a pre described and orderly manner.

They certainly won't be wanting any more negative press.

 

 

Then it's a matter for each and every passenger to way up the risk versus the reward.

Something we do most days, one way or the other.

You are right if it is only 1 or 2 people getting sick, but if it is more than 2, just don't be surprised by what follows.  

[pinotlover]

On 1/8/2021 at 7:28 AM, GICNJC said:

Canada' new air travel rules to enter Canada requires a negative PCR test within 72 hours of flight.  It applies even if you have been vacinated.   I think this will be the gold standard for the forsee able future.

I see this as short term only. The current issue, which has been amply illustrated, is that after receiving the vaccination it takes the body about 2 weeks to develop the antigens to be effective. We are so early in the process many/most having received the first shot only have not reached that point. Therefore the need for the test.

 

A simple google of the new salvia tests show them as accurate as the currently administered nasal swab test and the results can be obtained in about 20 minutes. In a large scale basis the costs ( for the provider) can be about $1 per test. The equipment can be purchased and the tests be administered onboard ship. 
 

I’ve read that some airlines/airports are contemplating requiring a three hour check in for international flights. During that time, all passengers will be tested, before being allowed to board. The cost of the test would be a new airport fee. Whether this comes to fruition is yet to be determined, but until most are vaccinated, and the vaccinations have time to become effective, many options will be explored.

 

If paying a $10 airport test fee , along with a proof of vaccination, removed the requirements for wearing a mask on a 10-15 hour flight, where do I pay the money?

[PaulMCO]

Our county in Florida, just started an on line appointment registry for the 12,000 does it gets next week.  Has two choices a fixed appointment window and when that fills a wait list in case of cancellations.   They are giving the Moderna, this week to healthcare workers, and Pfizer next week.

Was surprisingly easy to snag an appointments for Wednesday by using their Web site, but I would assume the phone lines were jammed.  Will be interesting to see how the vaccine is executed with around 6,000 vehicles over a 3 day period descending on the county fairground

[Tranquility Base]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

A simple google of the new salvia tests show them as accurate as the currently administered nasal swab test and the results can be obtained in about 20 minutes. In a large scale basis the costs ( for the provider) can be about $1 per test. The equipment can be purchased and the tests be administered onboard ship.

This could be one of the indicators as to when a cruise line is planning to start operations with each of their ships.

When they announce a particular ship is being fitted with an onboard testing facility.

[GICNJC]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I see this as short term only. The current issue, which has been amply illustrated, is that after receiving the vaccination it takes the body about 2 weeks to develop the antigens to be effective. We are so early in the process many/most having received the first shot only have not reached that point. Therefore the need for the test.

 

A simple google of the new salvia tests show them as accurate as the currently administered nasal swab test and the results can be obtained in about 20 minutes. In a large scale basis the costs ( for the provider) can be about $1 per test. The equipment can be purchased and the tests be administered onboard ship. 
 

I’ve read that some airlines/airports are contemplating requiring a three hour check in for international flights. During that time, all passengers will be tested, before being allowed to board. The cost of the test would be a new airport fee. Whether this comes to fruition is yet to be determined, but until most are vaccinated, and the vaccinations have time to become effective, many options will be explored.

 

If paying a $10 airport test fee , along with a proof of vaccination, removed the requirements for wearing a mask on a 10-15 hour flight, where do I pay the money?

In fact the fast test are not as effective primarily because you have to be further into your exposure for the test to determine you do have COVID.   To put it another way, there are pregency tests that reqire different minimum days to register positive.