Thoughts on Cuba cruises resuming

[Tapi]

On 3/10/2021 at 11:26 PM, Moviela said:

As you leave the ship in Cuba there is a sign reminding you to set your watch back fifty years.

And that’s one of the things that I found most fascinating about our trip to Cuba. 

[sparks1093]

33 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 

That's not really true in my experience. I have been to China (and have lived in China) and, while there's parts that are off limits to foreigners, it's pretty rare. I have been all over the country and never been turned away from anyplace I wanted to go. Same with Laos, same with Vietnam, same with Cuba. Only place I have been (out of 125+ countries visited) where I was escorted every moment outside of the hotel and shown only "approved" things was North Korea, when I went for an aviation tour several years back. 

That is good to know, once I've visited the places that I want to see first I'll consider it.

[cruisemom42]

57 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 

That's not really true in my experience. I have been to China (and have lived in China) and, while there's parts that are off limits to foreigners, it's pretty rare. I have been all over the country and never been turned away from anyplace I wanted to go. Same with Laos, same with Vietnam, same with Cuba. Only place I have been (out of 125+ countries visited) where I was escorted every moment outside of the hotel and shown only "approved" things was North Korea, when I went for an aviation tour several years back. 

 

Agreed. I've found that given the right situation people can be remarkably candid in conversation about how things are in a given country. And if you keep your eyes open, you will see a wide range of things both approved and not necessarily approved.

 

I've not been to North Korea, but I will say that the one place I've been where my guide seemed genuinely afraid to talk to me apart from a canned script was in Syria, about a year before the start of the Arab Spring (and subsequent civil war there).  Of all the placed I've traveled, I got the strongest sense of a really repressive regime there.

 

Still, it did not stop me from seeing sites that are now destroyed forever -- the bazaar in Aleppo, the Palmyra site destroyed by ISIS, etc.  Whether a country is open or relatively repressive, there is still much to see and learn.

[SelectSys]

12 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Most likely their equipment was made in China. 

Perhaps.  My interest in switching in this case was driven by my detest for Comcast coupled with the availability of a new fiberoptic solution in my neighborhood.  When all I can do is see Chairman Xi on my computer, I'll know its really over.

[lenquixote66]

On 3/5/2021 at 4:59 PM, ldubs said:

I have no desire to go to Cuba.  As to Cuba Cruises, I'm pretty OK either way.    I wondered if those growing up during the cold war might have a hard nosed view.   Reading here, that does not appear to be the case.     

I have no desire either and the two previous times I explained why both the posts and I were removed.

[ldubs]

33 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

I have no desire either and the two previous times I explained why both the posts and I were removed.

 

Happens.  Best not worry about it and move on.  And yep, Cuba has no appeal to me.  No skin off my nose if others want to go there.   

[SelectSys]

 

42 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Happens.  Best not worry about it and move on.  And yep, Cuba has no appeal to me.  No skin off my nose if others want to go there.   

 

I am with you on this one.   I have other places I would rather visit at the current time.

 

I talked with one family member who went and came back depressed.  They didn't stay in an AI but in a hotel in the center of Havana.   They said the people were great, but the general poverty was depressing.  This was a comment from someone living in Mexico who is used to living in a middle income country rather than someone from the US.

 

The reason I remember the story is that they rented a boat to go fishing and at the end of the day were told that the fish belonged to the state and couldn't take them home.  Whether this is true or not remains a mystery and the guides probably needed the fish way more than tourists.

 

Of course this is an anecdotal experience, 

 

If you are good with Spanish, I recommend watching the videos by Gabriel Herrera.  He a Venezuelan who left his country a while back to live in Europe.   He has some good videos on reality of life in Cuba outside the AI bubbles.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmJocBytBRMbGw6haSRXnjQ/videos

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by SelectSys

[Ride-The-Waves]

The reason I remember the story is that they rented a boat to go fishing and at the end of the day were told that the fish belonged to the state and couldn't take them home.  Whether this is true or not remains a mystery and the guides probably needed the fish way more than tourists.

 

Sounds like a fish story to me...

 

I traveled around Romania during its very depressing Ceaucescu period (late 1980s) where his (and his wife's) dictatorial ruling devastated the country.  They used to have guard towers in the fields with people armed with rifles to shoot anyone the tried postal potatoes.  Elementary school children marching along the road/highway (few cars out) to go, pick potatoes in the fields.  Nothing to eat in the markets.  Everything went to the state.  

 

Visiting Cuba is an education and should be treated as such.  Learn how dictators and command economies don't work.

[cruisemom42]

17 hours ago, SelectSys said:

I talked with one family member who went and came back depressed.  They didn't stay in an AI but in a hotel in the center of Havana.   They said the people were great, but the general poverty was depressing.  This was a comment from someone living in Mexico who is used to living in a middle income country rather than someone from the US.

 

I'm not questioning your friend's perception, but in reading a number of posts in a similar vein, it does strike me as a little hypocritical that many cruisers express dismay about the poverty in Cuba (or cite it as a reason for not wanting to visit), when a number of regularly-visited ports for the cruise industry in the Caribbean are lower on the poverty list than Cuba.

 

Depending on what measures you look at, Haiti, Jamaica and St. Lucia generally rate below Cuba. As are Honduras and Belize, also visited on a number of W. Caribbean itineraries. And if you look at different sets of measures, there are more that fall below Cuba.

 

Cuba, however, seems to be held to a higher standard, for some reason. Cruisers seem more than happy to go and revel on Labadee for the day without their social conscience pricking them because Haiti is generally considered THE poorest nation in North America....  🤔

 

 

[broberts]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Visiting Cuba is an education and should be treated as such.  Learn how dictators and command economies don't work.

 

Visiting any country can be educational. Show me an economy that does work for all members.

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

I'm not questioning your friend's perception, but in reading a number of posts in a similar vein, it does strike me as a little hypocritical that many cruisers express dismay about the poverty in Cuba (or cite it as a reason for not wanting to visit), when a number of regularly-visited ports for the cruise industry in the Caribbean are lower on the poverty list than Cuba.

Well, we are have our own internal perceptions and contradictions.  Some may be based in politics and beliefs.  I have no problem for anyone wanting to visit Cuba.  It's just not high on my own list.

 

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Cuba, however, seems to be held to a higher standard, for some reason.

Absolutely true.  Cuba strikes an emotional chord with many for historical reasons and family reasons.  Cold War politics, nationalization of property, loss of power - many factors drive this.  It probably won't change anytime soon.

 

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Cruisers seem more than happy to go and revel on Labadee for the day without their social conscience pricking them because Haiti is generally considered THE poorest nation in North America

Family once missed a Christmas cruise because of an airplane failure on the way to Miami.  We wanted to join the cruise in Labadee as that was the first stop.  RCCL said that joining the ship in Labadee wasn't possible.  We flew to Cartagena instead to meet the ship and had a great pre-Christmas stay there.  

 

2 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Visiting Cuba is an education and should be treated as such.  Learn how dictators and command economies don't work.

I agree with this.  All travel is educational if you open your eyes and listen.  

 

30 minutes ago, broberts said:

Visiting any country can be educational. Show me an economy that does work for all members.

Sure, it's just that some economies work better than others in terms of delivering economically for their societies.  Similarly, some political systems work better than others in terms of providing a better society than others.  

 

It's good to learn what works and what doesn't through travel.  These experiences can help ground oneself in reality at home.

 

[jocap]

Just received my Fred Olsen brochure- there isn't a Caribbean season during the coming winter,  but winter 22/3 has the ship Braemar home porting in Havana for two nights (and also Barbados) so people can fly in or out of these ports.

[jtwind]

The Cuban food in South Florida is much better than the food in Cuba.  To get the same quality in Cuba, we actually had to pay a little more than what we pay in South Florida.  Several travel articles had come to the same conclusion.  That's really not meant to put down Cuba.  It's just the way it is.  And with Cuba being unavailable for people from the US, and in the midst of a pandemic, Miami can be a fun alternatives for foodies.

[LHT28]

49 minutes ago, jtwind said:

The Cuban food in South Florida is much better than the food in Cuba.

 i wonder why?

🙄

[jtwind]

19 hours ago, LHT28 said:

 i wonder why?

🙄

I'm having a slow day.  And I noticed 2 people liked your post.  Mind explaining?

[LHT28]

42 minutes ago, jtwind said:

I'm having a slow day.  And I noticed 2 people liked your post.  Mind explaining?

In the USA  the restaurants have access to  any kind of food & supplies they need/want  not so in Cuba

so of course food will be varied  in the USA

 

[jtwind]

19 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

In the USA  the restaurants have access to  any kind of food & supplies they need/want  not so in Cuba

so of course food will be varied  in the USA

 

With you being from Canada, have you been to the AI's there?  We spent about 10 days with different private guides, and most were saying (in Spanish) that the best of the best is reserved for the tourists.

 

We had some amazing tropical juices, jellies, and jams for breakfast, and the best non-stringy, tender yuca, but the rest was meh.

[broberts]

No doubt some resorts have much better food. After all the guests are paying a lot more than the locals for their meals.

 

It is no surprise to me that for the most part  one has to pay more for good meals on any island in the Caribbean than in Miami. This is not unique to Cuba. Although Cuba has suffered from the tendencies of managed economies to produce a narrow range of foodstuffs.

[mom says]

18 minutes ago, jtwind said:

but the rest was meh

Not surprising. Again, for emphasis, the reason is not surprising: Lack of supply in Cuba. Can you say embargos? Take beef for example. According to our conversations with several locals on our stays there, beef is expensive and hard to come by for the locals. Most goes to the AI restaurants. The land is only suitable for growing a limited range of fruits and vegetables, and importing is expensive. So the average Cuban has to get by with a limited range of food availability. Cuban restaurants in Florida can get anything they want and charge higher prices than would be affordable in Cuba. All that being said, I've never had a bad Ropa de Vieja in our stays in Cuba. Can't wait to get back and tuck into another plate if it.

Edited March 20, 2021 by mom says

[jtwind]

This is our go to recipe.  We order ropa vieja every time we get a chance, but they don't ever beat this, for our tastes.  https://www.daringgourmet.com/best-ropa-vieja-the-national-dish-of-cuba/

 

Two thumbs up from a house full of Cubans the last time we had a family gathering.  We had a bunch of chefs in the kitchen telling me I was doing it all wrong.  But in the end, they all went back for seconds, and I got my "Honorary Cuban" diploma.

[cruisemom42]

37 minutes ago, mom says said:

All that being said, I've never had a bad Ropa de Vieja in our stays in Cuba. Can't wait to get back and tuck into another plate if it.

 

I was just about to post here to say that the ropa vieja we had in a certain parador in Havana was absolutely delicious.

 

[mom says]

@jtwind - that's going into my menu planner for this week. Thanks for the link!

[puppycanducruise]

3 minutes ago, mom says said:

@jtwind - that's going into my menu planner for this week. Thanks for the link!

Looks delicious - I think we'll have it too.  Thanks.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, jtwind said:

This is our go to recipe.  We order ropa vieja every time we get a chance, but they don't ever beat this, for our tastes.  https://www.daringgourmet.com/best-ropa-vieja-the-national-dish-of-cuba/

 

Two thumbs up from a house full of Cubans the last time we had a family gathering.  We had a bunch of chefs in the kitchen telling me I was doing it all wrong.  But in the end, they all went back for seconds, and I got my "Honorary Cuban" diploma.

Were you  cooking this in Cuba?

Did you have a problem getting the ingredients?

 

Some  AI  depending on the hotel running it  get food shipped in from their own Country  but locals do not have that option

We did not starve but the food was basic