vaccine required?

[dog]

Every one will not be vaccinated on cruise ships. Example those under 18 not required at this point for UK summer sailings. 
I doubt herd immunity will be reached anytime in the next year- my opinion from  following news- scientists/doctors and what I see happening. Can you believe Toronto - a hotspot...we are in a third wave here in Ontario and even with borders closed/ restrictions many varients are spreading several schools in my region had to close again because of this recently. 

[shipsealand]

I know dozens of people who got Moderna and Pfizer and either had no reactions or were sick a day or two with bothersome but do-able reactions.  But compared with catching covid, my opinion is that it is far better to take the vaccine.  Also everyone who get the vaccine is kept in a waiting area for 15 minutes and checked with periodically and well as notified to aler t staff if feeling a bad reaction.  Those with prior allergies or reactions to vaccines are told to wait 30 minutes.  There are medical personnel at the vaccine sites just in case.  Don't depend on your news on social media.  Check out several news sources among from conservative to liberal and they for most part say take the vaccine.  I understand that some do not want to take the vaccine but for the good of humanity, we should all take it.  Only those who are truly have very likelihood of severe reactions should not take it and rely on herd immunity to protect them.  But if most people say they do not want to take the vaccine and will rely on herd immunity by those who are willing to take it, we will never get there.

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, CI66774 said:

Wrong.

As someone else pointed out how was I wrong?

 

I would not go to Dr. Fauci if I had macular degeneration. Actually, I would also not go to Senator Rand if I had macular degeneration.🤣

[Pamster]

On 3/12/2021 at 2:59 PM, generichandle said:

Also, while there are other possible reagent reactions, egg-based vaccines are far the most likely to have allergy problems. As far as I know, none of the current Covid vaccines are egg-based, and certainly the mRNA ones use completely different reagents. I have not heard of any sever allergy reactions to Pfizer or Moderna, though perhaps I have missed some stories. I was in medical field and follow it pretty closely. 

 

Anyway, hope you get to sail without soon. It all depends on how quickly 'herd immunity' is established, especially around the World. If we can outrace the variants with the vaccines, WE WIN! And so do you. 

There have been reports of allergic reactions to Pfizer. That’s the reason for the required 15 minutes observation after. Most have been successfully treated with some epi, and released the same day. Rarely has required overnight stay but still fine the next day. 

[milolii]

59 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

As someone else pointed out how was I wrong?

 

I would not go to Dr. Fauci if I had macular degeneration. Actually, I would also not go to Senator Rand if I had macular degeneration.🤣

That’s funny. 😂

[Pamster]

On 3/18/2021 at 7:00 PM, D C said:

 

Nothing different than cruising was pre-2020.

 

If vaccines actually are required to cruise, and the CDC says vaccinated people need not wear masks in the company of each other, then pray tell why masks would possibly be required anywhere on a ship. 

Because of the possibilities of variants that the vaccines may not be as effective against. Until the rate of transmission slows down to the point where the virus isn’t mutating there’sa risk that you could come in contact with someone carrying a variant form. 

[K.T.B.]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

As someone else pointed out how was I wrong?

 

I would not go to Dr. Fauci if I had macular degeneration. Actually, I would also not go to Senator Rand if I had macular degeneration.🤣

 

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, Pamster said:

Because of the possibilities of variants that the vaccines may not be as effective against. Until the rate of transmission slows down to the point where the virus isn’t mutating there’sa risk that you could come in contact with someone carrying a variant form. 

But in the US, the science knows the three EUA approved vaccines are effective against the existing variants.  Is it your point that we will need to stay locked down until there are no more variants forming because science doesn't know what could possibly happen?

 

We keep hearing that they're 'following the science' but in reality, what's happening is they're ignoring scientific evidence and reality in favor of science fictions which aren't even present.

[Pamster]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

But in the US, the science knows the three EUA approved vaccines are effective against the existing variants.  Is it your point that we will need to stay locked down until there are no more variants forming because science doesn't know what could possibly happen?

 

We keep hearing that they're 'following the science' but in reality, what's happening is they're ignoring scientific evidence and reality in favor of science fictions which aren't even present.

No that wasn’t my point at all. I was just explaining why we may need to continue to wear masks even though we’ve been vaccinated. While what you say is true for the known variants, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have shown a significant decrease in efficacy against the South Africa B.1.351. Meanwhile the B.1.1.7 variant is surging and is now more than 50% of new cases.  As long as the virus continues to spread and mutate a variant even more resistant to the current vaccines could develop. And it may require a booster of a slightly different formula. That is following the science. 
 

if everyone would mask up and just take it easy until more people are vaccinated we’d have a much better chance of slowing it down and decreasing the risk of mutation. But some people won’t mask, some won’t vax, and there are hundreds of college kids that had to party in the streets of South Miami tonight. (among other places, I’m sure). 
 

We could be seeing the beginning of more hospitalizations in 2-3 weeks and then a surge in deaths again. 

[Pamster]

15 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Senator Rand Paul, a physician, hammered on Dr. Fauci in a senate hearing about why should vaccinated people wear masks.  Paul asked where are the studies or evidence.  Fauci had none.  It's just that people "may" still get sick.

 

Well, I "may" get hit by an asteroid standing in my backyard too.

Well Rand Paul didn’t exactly give Dr Fauci a chance to answer. The variants are too new to have any “studies” per se, but Dr. Fauci was permitted to explain, after Rand Paul’s time was up. Although that part wasn’t included in the clips shown by MSM that just wanted to talk about his hammering on the witness, and interrupting him without even giving him a chance to answer. 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/03/18/coronavirus-response-hearing-fauci-rand-paul-masks-sot-vpx.cnn

 

[Pamster]

19 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Several posters have discussed masks or not when vaccinated.  If I am on a cruise ship - or any other locale - and everyone is vaccinated, well forget the masks.  Otherwise, when do they ever go away?  What are the conditions to go back to pre-Covid?  Perhaps some people will start wearing masks during flu season as a precaution.  Who knows?

 

But mask wearing requirements/regulations/recommendations were brought in specifically due to Covid-19.  Once "everyone" is vaccinated, well sure anyone can wear a mask if it makes them feel more comfortable or safer in a group/crowd, but there should be no forced requirement.

 

Problem is I don’t think we’ll ever reach everyone being vaccinated. Now they’re saying 85% either vaccinated or post-Covid. Meanwhile 35% say they won’t take the vaccine. Meanwhile number of variants are increasing. 

[dog]

Miami Beach is in the news tonight. Mask less party goers, crowds in South Florida on Spring Break. Curfews set, causeways being closed. So it continues as if there is no pandemic, for some. 

[Steelers36]

22 minutes ago, Pamster said:

Problem is I don’t think we’ll ever reach everyone being vaccinated.

Yes, that is why I put the word in quotes.

[K.T.B.]

1 hour ago, dog said:

Miami Beach is in the news tonight. Mask less party goers, crowds in South Florida on Spring Break. Curfews set, causeways being closed. So it continues as if there is no pandemic, for some. 

 

This is why some animals eat their young....

[nocl]

5 hours ago, Daniel A said:

But in the US, the science knows the three EUA approved vaccines are effective against the existing variants.  Is it your point that we will need to stay locked down until there are no more variants forming because science doesn't know what could possibly happen?

 

We keep hearing that they're 'following the science' but in reality, what's happening is they're ignoring scientific evidence and reality in favor of science fictions which aren't even present.

The key is the number of infections.  If the incidence rate is high, than you have both the possibility of variants spreading and new variants forming.  You also have the possibility of a vaccine resistant variant happening.  

 

So additional methods should continue to be used (depending upon the incidence rate) in addition to vaccination.  After all you really do not want vaccinated or unvaccinated individuals being exposed to ill individuals. Being vaccinated reduces the risk, but does not eliminate the risk.  As well as the possibility of a fully resistant variant showing up.  If that happened we could be  back to last summer very quickly.

 

Once the incidence rate is low and the odds of someone encountering an infected  individual are , than we can start to rely on vaccination as the primary or in some cases only method of protection.

 

The incidence rate is what really count.

[Daniel A]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

The key is the number of infections.  If the incidence rate is high, than you have both the possibility of variants spreading and new variants forming.  You also have the possibility of a vaccine resistant variant happening.  

 

Once the incidence rate is low and the odds of someone encountering an infected  individual are , than we can start to rely on vaccination as the primary or in some cases only method of protection.

 

The incidence rate is what really count.

We may be discussing apples and oranges.  To be clear, I am not anti mask.  I always wear a mask when out in public and I strongly believe everybody should wear a mask when out in public.  My comments above are strictly made in the context of the topic of this thread.  Do we need to continue to wear a mask onboard a ship where everyone has been fully vaccinated?  I am not referencing mitigation measures in the general population, just in the sub-set of people on a cruise ship where all have been vaccinated.  That is the original context of this thread.

 

It is my position that according to the existing evidence, the incidence rate among a100% vaccinated population ( such as on a cruise ship ) would be extremely low.  When off a ship in port and back in a general population, masks should be worn but not on a private island where 100% of the people have been vaccinated.

 

I do believe that the CDC is gradually acknowledging this concept by their most recent guidance on quarantines and social distancing measures for people in fully vaccinated environments.

[SargassoPirate]

21 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Rand Paul is a politician.  Period!

 

And our top politician, with the advice of Dr. Fauci, has declared that if we all get vaccinated and continue to wear masks, by July 4th we can gather in our backyards for a cookout.  Weren't we able to do that last year without masks?  And don't forget that on 60 Minutes in March, 2020, Fauci said there was no reason for Americans to be wearing masks.

 

With more vaccines going into arms and more people immune to Covid by exposure, we are reaching herd immunity and masks will become theater and virtue signaling - just as food service workers wearing rubber gloves without changing them for hours on end, and making a show of wiping down every surface as if the virus can sprout wings and fly up your nose on it's own.

 

 

[dog]

15 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

And our top politician, with the advice of Dr. Fauci, has declared that if we all get vaccinated and continue to wear masks, by July 4th we can gather in our backyards for a cookout. 

 

Wouldn’t that be nice...”If we ALL”.  I cannot see that happening. 
 

[capriccio]

27 minutes ago, dog said:

Wouldn’t that be nice...”If we ALL”.  I cannot see that happening. 
 

Just by some of the responses on this thread we know that isn't going to happen ☹️

[CI66774]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

And our top politician, with the advice of Dr. Fauci, has declared that if we all get vaccinated and continue to wear masks, by July 4th we can gather in our backyards for a cookout.  Weren't we able to do that last year without masks?  And don't forget that on 60 Minutes in March, 2020, Fauci said there was no reason for Americans to be wearing masks.

 

With more vaccines going into arms and more people immune to Covid by exposure, we are reaching herd immunity and masks will become theater and virtue signaling - just as food service workers wearing rubber gloves without changing them for hours on end, and making a show of wiping down every surface as if the virus can sprout wings and fly up your nose on it's own.

 

 

We are a free people. Free people don’t allow others to dictate when or where we can gather.

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

We are a free people. Free people don’t allow others to dictate when or where we can gather.

Sure they do, happens all the time.

[majortom10]

Cannot believe some of the attitudes of some people on this thread as a World we are all suffering and nobody expected or ever dreamed what has happened this last 12 months and the number of deaths due to this virus. I think honestly everyone would prefer not to wear a mask but the consequences if not done until majority, dont think there will be 100% vaccination, then it is a small price to pay compared to what could happen if we dont.

[dog]

Can’t speak for anyone else. I will wear a mask, get vaccinated when it is my turn, follow recommendations of health professionals and scientists like Dr Fauci so I will feel comfortable in getting in a plane and cruise ship next year. 
I know others won’t do these things, can’t make them. However, if a vaccination and mask are required by airlines, cruise lines , other countries/ ports, I won’t listen to their squawking “that is is not fair, it is their right”..,just no reason to continue on this thread. 

[HappyInVan]

22 hours ago, Daniel A said:

When Herd Immunity has been defined as having a high percentage of a population/community immune to an infectious disease, precisely how does the Herd Immunity concept define a population or community?

 

 

Herd immunity is a scientific concept to describe a state where a population has immunity to a disease. The proof of herd immunity lies in the absence of the disease. It has died out or dwindled to a trickle (endemic).

 

In the natural world, there are local populations with herd immunity. The disease killing off the weak, leaving the resistant to repopulate the place.

 

In the human world, there are vaccines which are effective in reducing the spread of a disease. But, there are also infectious diseases (like AIDS) where there has been no workable vaccine despite 40 years of $$$ research.

 

The reason lies in the nature of the virus life form. They mutate quickly. Looking for functionality that will expend its numbers and reach, overcoming obstructions.

 

Once in a while, the virus world has a winner. A talented genius with the capability to repeatedly adapt against countermeasures. Covid19 faced shutdowns in the first wave. Response? A variant first identified in the UK, that is 70% more infectious and 60% more deadly (collateral damage).

 

Therefore, the creation of herd immunity from vaccines is a moving target. With the original European variant, the target was >70%. With the UK variant, perhaps >80%.

 

We're very pleased by our new vaccines. But, covid is already circulating vax-resistant variants. No immunity even if you have been vax. Against these variants, we will have to revert to 'primitive' tools like masks.

 

We could use a vax booster. But, how would a talented virus respond? What doesn't kill it makes it stronger. Could we end up with a variant completely immune to our vaccines, like HIV?

 

Post #110 explains ...

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2774089-the-debbie-downers-have-been-right-all-along/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-60885369

 

 

On this page, I have several comments about why it is so difficult for intelligent creatures to defeat covid.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2774089-the-debbie-downers-have-been-right-all-along/page/6/?tab=comments#comment-60891250

 

 

[nocl]

6 hours ago, Daniel A said:

We may be discussing apples and oranges.  To be clear, I am not anti mask.  I always wear a mask when out in public and I strongly believe everybody should wear a mask when out in public.  My comments above are strictly made in the context of the topic of this thread.  Do we need to continue to wear a mask onboard a ship where everyone has been fully vaccinated?  I am not referencing mitigation measures in the general population, just in the sub-set of people on a cruise ship where all have been vaccinated.  That is the original context of this thread.

 

It is my position that according to the existing evidence, the incidence rate among a100% vaccinated population ( such as on a cruise ship ) would be extremely low.  When off a ship in port and back in a general population, masks should be worn but not on a private island where 100% of the people have been vaccinated.

 

I do believe that the CDC is gradually acknowledging this concept by their most recent guidance on quarantines and social distancing measures for people in fully vaccinated environments.

IF one is on a ship where everyone is fully vaccinated, where everyone was tested at time of boarding, then the odds of encountering an infected person should be low enough to not require masks.  As long as no one leaves the ship. 

 

After any port stop it would depend upon the incidence rate and type variants present at that port, and the type of actions taken to isolate the passengers from the local population.

 

That assumes that there is no vaccine resistant variant present in the source population that the passengers come from.