Should the Covid vaccine be required?

[Ocean Boy]

56 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

It’s the nano robots and the 5G signals 

Thanks, I knew I was missing something.🙂

[broberts]

6 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

First, Canada is banning people from USA for a couple of years.....

 

Far from accurate.

 

4 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

The fact that ships can't sail in Canadian waters, and visitors must quaranteen for 14 days, including anyone that wants to drive over?  I can fly to Mexico, but I can't fly to Canada now.  

 

Ships, including large cruise ships can sail in Canadian waters. https://tc.canada.ca/en/ministerial-orders-interim-orders-directives-directions-response-letters/interim-order-no-5-respecting-passenger-vessel-restrictions-due-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19

 

People can enter canada from other nations, including the US. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/visitors.html

[grandgeezer]

9 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Far from accurate.

 

 

Ships, including large cruise ships can sail in Canadian waters. https://tc.canada.ca/en/ministerial-orders-interim-orders-directives-directions-response-letters/interim-order-no-5-respecting-passenger-vessel-restrictions-due-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19

 

People can enter canada from other nations, including the US. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/visitors.html

Check #3, is states just the opposite.

[broberts]

14 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Check #3, is states just the opposite.

 

Did you read the exceptions? Essentially ships may sail through Canadian waters. They just can't stop.

[coffeebean]

15 hours ago, Sky616 said:

Very discriminatory and not fair. It's total BS.   Hope the lawsuits start.  

You can take your discrimination accusations and stuff them. The cruise lines are going to set up protocols so they can get their ships sailing SAFELY. Get over it.

[ljones]

Was just speaking to my travel agent & he said This Morning RCCL announced ALL their ships will require passengers to be vaccinated - and that he was getting angry calls about it... 

 

He also mention that RCCL requested permission to just "Port" in Victoria (Canada) & not allow ANYONE off the ship so as to complete their Alaska scheduled cruises & thus far they have been refused, despite the ability to be paid Port charges and having no passengers or others disembark...

[Joseph2017China]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

Far from accurate.

 

 

Ships, including large cruise ships can sail in Canadian waters. https://tc.canada.ca/en/ministerial-orders-interim-orders-directives-directions-response-letters/interim-order-no-5-respecting-passenger-vessel-restrictions-due-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19

 

People can enter canada from other nations, including the US. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/visitors.html

You don't understand.....yes we may go to Canada....if we first want to quarantee for 14 days in a hotel, locked up.  Pretty much the same thing as not being allowed to go.  Plus cruise ships are banned by what I read until the the year 2022.  (a couple of years).  Pretty certain, that any vessal over 100 passengers is prohibed to navigate, moor, anchor or berth in Canadian waters other than the artic waters......

 

Bottom line is Canada is not permitting ships, and making it difficult for anyone to cross from the USA.  

[Big_G]

I have to say this was as good if not better than any tipping or chair hog thread. Keep up the good work.

[Suzieanna]

I don’t think it’s discriminatory at all to restrict passengers to vaccinated only.   From a personal point of view, I would not feel comfortable mixing in close quarters with people who may or may not be a risk to me.  The cruise companies are trying their best to get back to some sort of business, albeit a socially distanced and masked up one with vaccinated guests only.   If we want these businesses to survive, this is the way for them to do it for the time being.

 

Fact is, a vacation on a ship is not a basic human right.  

 

I had my vaccinations in Jan/Feb.   My husband is months off getting his So We’re not going anywhere!  Unfair?  No, it’s just the way it is. 

[cured]

2 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

You don't understand.....yes we may go to Canada....if we first want to quarantee for 14 days in a hotel, locked up.  Pretty much the same thing as not being allowed to go.  Plus cruise ships are banned by what I read until the the year 2022.  (a couple of years).  Pretty certain, that any vessal over 100 passengers is prohibed to navigate, moor, anchor or berth in Canadian waters other than the artic waters......

 

Bottom line is Canada is not permitting ships, and making it difficult for anyone to cross from the USA.  

I am confused. Maybe you can help me out. Will you please confirm how you are seeing two years? Maybe my math is off (I did only go through diffy qs in college but that was a loooong time ago) but from what I calculate.....

Feb, 2022 - March, 2021 = 11 months, so not even a year.

Edited March 24, 2021 by cured

[Joseph2017China]

14 minutes ago, cured said:

I am confused. Will you please confirm how you are seeing two years? Maybe my math is off (I did only go through diffy qs in college) but from what I calculate.....

Feb, 2022 - March, 2021 = 11 months, so not even a year.

Restrictions started in 2020 and might end in 2022.  Bottom line..... Canada is restricted USA travel.  Why are you arguing anyway.  Canada is so afraid they won’t allow a cruise in territorial waters even in transit 

[broberts]

2 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

Canada is so afraid they won’t allow a cruise in territorial waters even in transit 

 

Since I posted a link to the actual order and you referenced the order you know this to be false. Cruise and other ships are allowed to transit Canadian waters.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

The CDC says that as of March 22nd, after 126 million administrations of covid vaccines:

 

CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. 

[firefly333]

20 hours ago, dswallow said:

2) A business can exclude people from using their restroom facilities unless that person is a current customer of the business. It's not discriminatory to withhold services to those who are not customers.

 

Idk this is necessarily true, but I get your pt.

 

I owned sbux stock and got so mad at some stuff like this. Some guys came in who were not willing to buy anything so employees told them they could not use the restrooms. It should be noted these guys were black as it resulted in sbux across the nation being shut down for a week and taking discrimination classes and sbux did reverse their decision. Anyone now can use their restrooms. Was a huge nationwide fuss at the time. My getting mad was the needle containers installed. But anyway, as a sbux stock owner at the time, I remember it turned out they could not say no to random street people coming in and using their facilities. 

 

So I will be interested if rcl can enforce vaccinations later out of the usa. I'm already hearing some promoting to stand up for your rights to not get vaccinated. It's in the constitution and the supreme  court upheld it you cant be made to get vaccinated to board. .some crazy people out there. Already lots of arguing and cruises out of usa havent even restarted. 

[John&LaLa]

11 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

You can fly in but you have to quarantine for 14 days

 

I would pay to quarantine in Andrews garage

[Ourusualbeach]

Just now, John&LaLa said:

 

I would pay to quarantine in Andrews garage

I'm sure Lucy and Bella would become best of friends.🤣

[A&L_Ont]

1 minute ago, Ourusualbeach said:

I'm sure Lucy and Bella would become best of friends.🤣

Maybe.  She doesn’t see any dogs, just foxes so it’s hard to say. 

[akb5k]

52 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Idk this is necessarily true, but I get your pt.

 

I owned sbux stock and got so mad at some stuff like this. Some guys came in who were not willing to buy anything so employees told them they could not use the restrooms. It should be noted these guys were black as it resulted in sbux across the nation being shut down for a week and taking discrimination classes and sbux did reverse their decision. Anyone now can use their restrooms. Was a huge nationwide fuss at the time. My getting mad was the needle containers installed. But anyway, as a sbux stock owner at the time, I remember it turned out they could not say no to random street people coming in and using their facilities. 

 

So I will be interested if rcl can enforce vaccinations later out of the usa. I'm already hearing some promoting to stand up for your rights to not get vaccinated. It's in the constitution and the supreme  court upheld it you cant be made to get vaccinated to board. .some crazy people out there. Already lots of arguing and cruises out of usa havent even restarted. 

Um, the Constitution doesn't say anything about vaccines. They didn't exist when it was written. The Constitution was written at the Constitutional Convention in 1787. The first vaccination (for smallpox, which has been eradicated thanks to vaccines) is generally attributed to Edward Jenner in 1796.

[John&LaLa]

2 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Maybe.  She doesn’t see any dogs, just foxes so it’s hard to say. 

 

Bell is a wolf, Lucy would see that.

[firefly333]

54 minutes ago, akb5k said:

Um, the Constitution doesn't say anything about vaccines. They didn't exist when it was written. The Constitution was written at the Constitutional Convention in 1787. The first vaccination (for smallpox, which has been eradicated thanks to vaccines) is generally attributed to Edward Jenner in 1796.

Ahhh exactly my pt, as I said a num nuts was telling me to stand up for my rights...that was HIS argument ... not mine. I gave up on him when he kept saying the supreme court and his rights. Sad to say he is on a generic rcl chat I'm in ...a rcl cruiser is saying that. ...I kept saying too late I am vaccinated but then gave up when he wouldnt quit saying it was in the constitution 

 

That's what worries me, that there are people there who are this far wacky. I tried twice reason, and gave up. My constitution doesnt say I have the right to not be vaccinated. 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

What does this have to do with mandating the vaccine to cruise. Sounds like you’re angry about something?

He is talking about one of the standard pieces of misinformation about vaccines (and masks) that we see very frequently in AZ. 

 

 

1 hour ago, RoyalC said:

I'm just pointing out the double-standard.

RoyalC, maybe this pool analogy would help:  If I hit the cue ball with a covid stick, and it goes in a pocket and 'dies', it's a direct covid death.  If another ball is very near the pocket and gets hit by the cue ball and dies, the second ball has a 'pre-existing condition' that made it more likely to die.  But it might have lived for a  long time if it hadn't been hit.

 

You say that we should either (1) not count the pre-existing-condition deaths (so 'only 6% of covid deaths are real'), or (2) count vaccine deaths that also occur shortly after vaccine administration.

 

But in the covid case, we can follow the motion of the cue ball.   If someone has one lung, and we observe that covid caused massive lung inflammation where there was none,  then covid contributed to the death.

 

That's the same thing the CDC and FDA try to do with every vaccine-adjacent death.  So far, they have found nothing.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[HBE4]

10 hours ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

If I hit the cue ball with a covid stick, and it goes in a pocket and 'dies', it's a direct covid death.  If another ball is very near the pocket and gets hit by the cue ball and dies, the second ball has a 'pre-existing condition' that made it more likely to die.  But it might have lived for a  long time if it hadn't been hit.

 

It's crazy the amount of people that fail to grasp this

 

Denial is a very powerful tool.

[pcur]

12 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Bell is a wolf, Lucy would see that.

Except Bell looks like she's yawning...............................☺️

[PMGS247]

28 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

It's crazy the amount of people that fail to grasp this

 

Denial is a very powerful tool.

100%

 

Doesn't have to be the only cause to be the difference between life and death. 

 

As for the overall question I think it's a foregone conclusion that Vaccines will be required and that makes sense.  I think it's the path to cruising sooner.  We could wait longer until we're at the point where it's not necessary but that would.....well....take longer.  Sooner is better. 

 

Also, it might be a trade for no masks / less masks, which is very attractive to this cruiser.  While I fully support mask policies in public spaces everywhere it's definitely quite unattractive in the context of paying for a cruise when I can find alternate vacations where I can safely and easily avoid having the mask be an overbearing element.  Not necessarily a deal breaker depending on the extent of the rules but I'm definitely hoping that's a benefit of vaccine requirements, which in theory would put you beyond a vaccine wall where masks become mostly redundant (acknowledging marginal vaccine ineffectiveness) once you've boarded.

 

I feel like there's going to be a small portion of the population that is unable to get a vaccine for one valid reason or another and they are going to be unfairly excluded.  It's unfortunate but it's just more COVID reality in a lesser of two evils situation.  Lots of that going around the past 12 months.  Eventually we'll fully pull out of this but there's just inevitable stepping stones with natural pro's and con's if we want to get things rolling sooner.

[Mapleleafforever]

19 hours ago, coffeebean said:

You can take your discrimination accusations and stuff them. The cruise lines are going to set up protocols so they can get their ships sailing SAFELY. Get over it.

Listen to yourself please. On the one hand you're saying get over it but on the other you're on pretty much every single thread here whining about unvaccinated kids still being allowed to cruise. Time for a long look in the mirror.