Should the Covid vaccine be required?

[Tippyton]

5 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

I think the poll speaks for its self. Its the same as Yellow fever, which you need to travel to certain countries, its mandated.

 

As for the vaccine, mask wearing, social distancing being effective, i look at it this way.

 

10 people in a room 7 will die

However if you all wear a mask only 5 will die

However if you all wear a mask and social distance only 4 will die

However if you all wear a mask, social distance, and have the vaccine only 2 will die.

 

As with all serious illness's some people will die however we can help lower the number who will die by taking lots of little steps and all the steps put together will help life go on.

But here, if nobody masks, distances, gets vaccinated, if there are 1000 people in the  room, only 50 will die (without adjusting for age and comorbidities).  Only vaccination or natural immunity moves the needle in a meaningful way, but much less so for the young and healthy.

[not-enough-cruising]

39 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

If memory serves the ok for no mask or distance was for small groups of vaccinated people.

 

2,000 or so people strikes me as more than a small group. Hopefully we will have sufficient data in a few more months.

It really does not matter if the order was for small groups or large groups. What matters is the fact that the CDC recognizes and acknowledges that a fully vaccinated group has a statistically insignificant chance of spreading virus AND if virus is spread it won’t be to a degree that causes concern. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I can see it now on a store front or in the window of a restaurant......

"Must show proof of vaccination. No proof of vaccination, no service". Those are the establishments that will have lines out the door. All my opinion, of course.

We have been eating out since June. No issues and restaurants are crowded, especially now. We had to go to 3 places this morning for breakfast to find a place that didn’t have a 30-45 minute wait. Cracker Barrel was over an hour wait. 
 

M8

[mek]

Just now, Milwaukee Eight said:

We have been eating out since June. No issues and restaurants are crowded, especially now. We had to go to 3 places this morning for breakfast to find a place that didn’t have a 30-45 minute wait. Cracker Barrel was over an hour wait. 
 

M8

We ate out all last summer but it was outdoor dining.  A couple of times I had dinner inside, but not my husband.  Since we have both been fully vaccinated we have dined inside 3 times and in every case the restaurants were crowded.  I took my son out for his birthday Friday night at Morton's and although the tables were spaced out more than in the past, the dining room was full. 

[ZoeyVictoria]

26 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

But here, if nobody masks, distances, gets vaccinated, if there are 1000 people in the  room, only 50 will die (without adjusting for age and comorbidities).  Only vaccination or natural immunity moves the needle in a meaningful way, but much less so for the young and healthy.

Without getting into a discussion of your statement, I am willing to bet that the “only 50” who die won’t consider that to be “only”.

[cured]

1 hour ago, ReneeFLL said:

No, it’s for the safety of the crew and passengers. Not everything is about discrimination and it shocks me how many people want to jump on that train. 🙄 Pregnant women can’t cruise after a certain time. Is that discrimination or for the safety of the person and baby? There are also so many other examples.

I think it is discrimination that a 35" pre-schooler can't ride the big slides at Coco Cay or even on the ships. 😉

Edited March 21, 2021 by cured

[Coralc]

3 hours ago, cured said:

One option that is being developed is the CLEAR Health Pass. It is an app but apparently they are also working on integrating it into kiosks. They already have security kiosks in airports and some stadiums that use biometrics to determine security eligibility.  They are having a surge in registrations as people are preferring a security check scanning the eyes or fingerprint rather than the TSA requirements of having to remove your mask for a few minutes.  It wouldn't be a stretch to add the health info to the kiosks and then add these kiosks in the ports so those without phones can just use the kiosks.

 

https://www.clearme.com/healthpass

 

 

 

Really? TSA makes you remove your mask for screening? We haven't flown since Feb. 2020, but I had not heard that. It seems a little unsafe. 

[Ocean Boy]

15 minutes ago, LXA350 said:

 

To be honest, taking these two examples I am not sure if the US Constition itself really works / is understood and applied by it's population as it was intended to back in the days.

Fortunately for you, you need not concern yourself with it.

[cured]

20 minutes ago, Coralc said:

Really? TSA makes you remove your mask for screening? We haven't flown since Feb. 2020, but I had not heard that. It seems a little unsafe. 

You are asked to temporarily lower your mask for identification.  While it is only a few seconds, many people are uncomfortable and prefer CLEAR's security where you don't have to remove/lower your mask and can be cleared with biometrics.

 

https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2021/01/31/tsa-implement-executive-order-regarding-face-masks-airport-security

Whether beginning the security screening process at the airport Travel Document Checker (TDC) or submitting checked baggage for screening, all passengers who appear to be over the age of 2 must properly wear a face mask throughout the security screening process. The officer at the TDC will request that travelers temporarily lower the mask to verify their identity. Those who approach the TDC without a mask will be asked to wear or obtain one to proceed. Passengers who refuse to wear a mask will not be permitted to enter the secure area of the airport, which includes the terminal and gate area. Depending on the circumstance, those who refuse to wear a mask may be subject to a civil penalty for attempting to circumvent screening requirements, interfering with screening personnel, or a combination of those offenses.

Edited March 21, 2021 by cured

[broberts]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

It really does not matter if the order was for small groups or large groups. What matters is the fact that the CDC recognizes and acknowledges that a fully vaccinated group has a statistically insignificant chance of spreading virus AND if virus is spread it won’t be to a degree that causes concern. 

 

You are trying to claim something of the CDC that is directly contradicted by its statements.

 

The CDC definitely does not recognize or acknowledge that any "fully vaccinated group has a statistically insignificant chance of spreading the virus". Suggesting that it does is a gross misrepresentation.

[baldilocks]

Vaccinated. Been eating out - no mask. Gym - no mask. Walking around - no mask. We only wear a mask when it is requested...i.e the doctor's office. Kids are back in school full time. We are voting for freedom. The polys want to keep us in a a masked hole...don't go there, it might be bad for you.. don't touch that it might hurt....don't live, it might be bad for you. Do you really want to live like that? No studies have shown that not wearing a mask by vaccinated people ups transmission rates.  

 

[not-enough-cruising]

38 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

You are trying to claim something of the CDC that is directly contradicted by its statements.

 

The CDC definitely does not recognize or acknowledge that any "fully vaccinated group has a statistically insignificant chance of spreading the virus". Suggesting that it does is a gross misrepresentation.

I guess all we can conclude here is that an alarmist and a medically trained realist interpret the same information in different ways. 
Luckily for all of us, my people will be setting the guidelines, not yours. 

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

We have been eating out since June. No issues and restaurants are crowded, especially now. We had to go to 3 places this morning for breakfast to find a place that didn’t have a 30-45 minute wait. Cracker Barrel was over an hour wait. 
 

M8

I get it. Hubby and I have been eating out ever since Florida opened indoor dining at 25% occupancy. We have taken that risk to continue to enjoy eating out which we have always done.

 

Having said that, in my community, there are lots of folks (seniors) who have not dined inside restaurants since the beginning of the pandemic. There is a pent up desire to dine in restaurants for this segment of our community.

 

I have no doubt in my mind if restaurants advertise that they require their patrons to be vaccinated, that will allow those folks who have denied themselves the pleasure of dining out to do so and give them a level of safety they have not felt for over a year.

 

I'm not saying all restaurants will do that. In fact, probably not many at all will adopt that policy. It is the restaurants who will cater to those folks who want to feel a level of safety that will be appreciated by the senior community. I have a feeling those restaurants will do well and have those lines out the door.

 

All my opinion, of course.

[Milwaukee Eight]

31 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I get it. Hubby and I have been eating out ever since Florida opened indoor dining at 25% occupancy. We have taken that risk to continue to enjoy eating out which we have always done.

 

Having said that, in my community, there are lots of folks (seniors) who have not dined inside restaurants since the beginning of the pandemic. There is a pent up desire to dine in restaurants for this segment of our community.

 

I have no doubt in my mind if restaurants advertise that they require their patrons to be vaccinated, that will allow those folks who have denied themselves the pleasure of dining out to do so and give them a level of safety they have not felt for over a year.

 

I'm not saying all restaurants will do that. In fact, probably not many at all will adopt that policy. It is the restaurants who will cater to those folks who want to feel a level of safety that will be appreciated by the senior community. I have a feeling those restaurants will do well and have those lines out the door.

 

All my opinion, of course.

Are these people hesitant to get the vaccine?  Hopefully, once they get vaccinated they might feel a restaurant dinning experience soon. 
 

I’m guessing you might be in the Villages?  We have a couple of friends who we ride with from the Villages. 
 

M8

[Etta1213]

9 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Not sure about the other places but in Ontario all you have to do is to sign a waiver stating that you consciously or religiously  object to the vaccines, attend a vaccine education seminar and you are exempt.

That's the case in at least parts of the US.

[mek]

3 hours ago, jean87510 said:

school shootings and vaccines for cruises are hardly comparable.  Another example of non US people who have no idea how the US constitution works.  I could explain but this is a cruise forum not a gun debate panel.

Thank you.

[mek]

3 hours ago, LXA350 said:

 

To be honest, taking these two examples I am not sure if the US Constition itself really works / is understood and applied by it's population as it was intended to back in the days.

Are you an American citizen living in Europe?

[HBE4]

I voted the first option.

 

I also stopped reading the thread after post #8 when I saw several deleted posts being quoted. Nothing personal but it gave me an idea of what the next 5 pages were going to be like.

 

 

[John&LaLa]

12 hours ago, LXA350 said:

 

Or Singapore residents Quantum 😄

 

Almost included them, but OP left Quantum off his list

[BNBR]

6 hours ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

Without getting into a discussion of your statement, I am willing to bet that the “only 50” who die won’t consider that to be “only”.

 

Well, statistically, if vaccinated, you would have exactly zero die.  The vaccines, all of them, have shown a 100% reduction in not only death, but even just hospitalization.

[ReneeFLL]

7 hours ago, LXA350 said:

 

To be honest, taking these two examples I am not sure if the US Constition itself really works / is understood and applied by it's population as it was intended to back in the days.

Do you get your info from Ace2542? Just asking. 😆

[mtnlvr53]

9 hours ago, broberts said:

 

If memory serves the ok for no mask or distance was for small groups of vaccinated people.

 

2,000 or so people strikes me as more than a small group. Hopefully we will have sufficient data in a few more months.

I take that as the CDC's "toe in the water" approach to opening everything up. They are recommending small groups with no masks to see if everything goes okay, if it does, open things up to larger groups, etc.  (This all just my opinion) The biggest problem with the general public is that it is difficult to "prove" that someone has been vaccinated. Masks are visible but a shot to the arm certainly isn't. So how do you let big groups get together with the assumption that all are vaccinated? Unfortunately, not everyone is honest. Cruise lines, airplanes, etc can require that you show your vaccination card as proof of shots. So it is fairly easy to see that everyone in the ship should be "relatively" safe.  I know I would feel safer if everyone on the ship had to show their card...

[ONECRUISER]

8 hours ago, Coralc said:

Really? TSA makes you remove your mask for screening? We haven't flown since Feb. 2020, but I had not heard that. It seems a little unsafe. 

Yes, had to few times. Flown 9 times since June, 1/3 time I have remove my Mask for TSA. Usually up on changes, seen lot, but last week only had show ID but no boarding Pass. Home from Cruise boarded Plane on 9/10/2001, getting home early on 9/11. Flying another Cruise day of Shoe Bomber when was one of first have remove my shoes. Was on Cruise when Underwear Bomber happened, no more liquids brought into Airport on way home. Was at Disney World month after 9/11, checking all bags and being frisked to enter Park. Next day Anthrax scare in Florida. Seen it all...

[sgmn]

17 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Governor “DeSantis” seems to be doing a far better job than the Queen and Royal Family.  I never see the Royals with a mask on. Doesn’t the forever mask apply to them?

You seem to be fixated with the RF, this at least the forth time you have mentioned them apropos of nothing. 🤷‍♀️

[sgmn]

14 hours ago, sandebeach said:

Retiring Mid-March last year - what a bummer for you. You are right, it isn't fair. 

Similar here, forced to retire a year earlier than planned due covid, last November. All my plans for retirement parties and our plans to travel the world, all gone. This is not how we planned that our retirement would be😏