Could lifting the ''Jones act'' be a help in this mess.

[d9704011]

12 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Beats the heck out of me. 

Earlier in JRG’s ramblings he said he thought the ‘classification of ports’ was meant as the identification of foreign ports and distant foreign ports in the context of the PVSA.  The only other classification of US ports I can find is here:

 

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/port-classes

[JRG]

2 hours ago, SRF said:

Here is the actual law -

Quote

 

(2)

has been issued a certificate of documentation with a coastwise endorsement under chapter 121 or is exempt from documentation but would otherwise be eligible for such a certificate and endorsement.

 

Thank you for posting the pertinent rule of law here,  This is the applicable sub-chapter above in (2)

This information belongs here and would be a cornerstone piece of a FAQ on the subject.

 

And kudos for being an Akita rescue hero as I know what that means.  Most people don't.

 

And also, I have to ask,  because I think you may travel on business  (I have over 500 segments logged), have you ever tried to get from Southern California to Canada Place to catch a cruise?  It is a pita because of the puddle jumping you have to due to Delta and Alaska connection routes.   By the time travelers from SoCal get to Canada place we are worn out.   If you live elsewhere you may not have experienced this.     Point being it would be nice to have more cruising departures open up from Seattle (and other WC ports) and all of the tourist revenue dollars spent would stay in Seattle.   

 

I am not being fecetious but if you have flown from this direction northward to catch a cruise it really sucks unless you are leaving directly out of Seattle on your cruise,  which is superb.   

 

That is a bonafide travel inconvenience travelers from our area face when looking at limited itinerary options for Alaska cruises.

 

 

[Charles4515]

 

 
That is a bonafide travel inconvenience travelers from our area face when looking at limited itinerary options for Alaska cruises.
 
 

The main limitation for Alaska cruises is that Seattle is farther from Alaska than Seattle. The itineraries are not as good for 7 day Alaska cruises because of distance.

Again I notice that this appears to be all about what is convenient for you. Me, Me, Me. I could suggest you move to a more convenient location.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I don't recall this ever being on the radar.  I recall waivers granted to foreign flagged ferries in certain venues until such time US flagged vessels existed, but I do not recall there ever being discussion for blanket exclusion of major cruise corporations from the PVSA.  

I think it is being discussed on these boards, but that is a real stretch to define that as "on the radar".

 

[JRG]

23 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Again I notice that this appears to be all about what is convenient for you. Me, Me, Me. I could suggest you move to a more convenient location.

 

Ok I see your point sorry for the rambling.   I'm not thinking that way and I appreciate you pointing that out to me and I  can see how it looks that way.   Thank you for graciously handling that.

 

I usually don't post that much but this topic triggered my interest.

 

I should try writing in Haiku style to keep me in check.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by JRG

[njhorseman]

54 minutes ago, JRG said:

Thank you for posting the pertinent rule of law here,  This is the applicable sub-chapter above in (2)

This information belongs here and would be a cornerstone piece of a FAQ on the subject.

Nope...the poster cited something out of context and in fact the poster's interpretations of the law, associated regulations and CBP rulings are wrong. As I suggested to that poster you need to read the actual up-to-date document, which can be found here: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/PVSA-ICP.pdf

[Shmoo here]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

It is a pita because of the puddle jumping you have to due to Delta and Alaska connection routes.   By the time travelers from SoCal get to Canada place we are worn out. 

Where in SoCal?  We've flown to Vancouver directly twice to catch cruises.  Direct from LAX.  No puddle jumping.

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Paul, can you enlighten me as to how "ports are classified"?

 

10 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Beats the heck out of me. 

 

Not an expert but there are the late vintage ruby reds and then the always popular sweet tawny Port.  😄😄😄   

   

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, JRG said:

 

I'd write to Congress to create a US Cruising Commission first.   

 

 

Tax payer money going to a commission so rich folk can cruise is really going to go over big.  

[JRG]

15 hours ago, ldubs said:

Not an expert but there are the late vintage ruby reds and then the always popular sweet tawny Port.

 

I'd suggest something that pairs well with the leftover Red Herring that keeps getting served here.

[cruzysuzy]

With suggestions for shorter cruises and dealing with closed borders anyone heard of any activity to rescind the Jones Act?

[d9704011]

You’re referring to the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act), not the Jones Act.

 

I don’t believe there is any move afoot amongst legislators or the cruise lines to make any changes.  Anything you may have heard is likely from cruisers.

 

I suspect you are interested in this because of the no sail order and cruise restrictions due to coronavirus.  If that is the case what particular difference does it make?  Ships aren’t going anywhere while the coronavirus is such a problem.

[CruiserBruce]

It's not the Jones Act, it's the PVSA. Jones Act is about cargo.

 

There are many discussions here about repealing or altering the PVSA. There has been no evidence there is any move to change the PVSA. There is no indication the cruise industry wants any changes.

 

 

[Essiesmom]

And another thread:

 

 

[Shmoo here]

3 hours ago, cruzysuzy said:

With suggestions for shorter cruises and dealing with closed borders anyone heard of any activity to rescind the Jones Act?

While I'm pretty sure you're actually talking about the PVSA,  I'll just point out rescinding it will not change the cruising situation.

 

Cruises are not running because of virus control issues.  The PVSA has no say in that.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Shmoo here

[navybankerteacher]

8 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

While I'm pretty sure you're actually talking about the PVSA,  I'll just point out rescinding it will not change the cruising situation.

 

Cruises are not running because of virus control issues.  The PVSA has no say in that.

 

 

It IS the PVSA, not the Jones Act— but there are coastal New England cruises scheduled for August (US flagged American Cruise Line - so no PVSA concerns).  Still, I would not think of going on one given the COVID concerns - which clearly transcend PVSA complications.

 

[NantahalaCruiser]

54 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

It IS the PVSA, not the Jones Act— but there are coastal New England cruises scheduled for August (US flagged American Cruise Line - so no PVSA concerns).  Still, I would not think of going on one given the COVID concerns - which clearly transcend PVSA complications.

 

Agreed! Wife and I have enough concerns merely going shopping at Walmart - no desire to add the risk of cruising until an effective vaccine is available.

[Langley Cruisers]

13 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Agreed! Wife and I have enough concerns merely going shopping at Walmart - no desire to add the risk of cruising until an effective vaccine is available.

Thank you! Us too. I am immunocompromised and I am actually very careful in my everyday life. What used to be a nice evening out for dinner or a shopping trip to a home store (as examples) has turned into one of us going in for as short a time as possible, masked and aware of physical distancing. Sadly, we will never fly or cruise again.

 

Life is short - may we find joy and beauty in the little everyday things that we didn't before. 🌺🌄

[paul929207]

I am not sure a change to the PVSA woulld do much. Right now, most countries will not allow US citizens because we have such a horrible record of not doing anything to corral the COVID 19.

 

As for domestic cruises only stopping in the US I would not go near it.

[ldubs]

22 minutes ago, paul929207 said:

 

As for domestic cruises only stopping in the US I would not go near it.

 

 

I enjoy the experience of foreign ports.  But if there were a cruise up & down our western coasts I think I would enjoy that as a convenient get-away.    Probably would feel the same about a NE coastal cruise (maybe R/T out of Boston or NYC).    

 

Is it that US ports don't appeal that drives your preference?  

 

 

[cruzysuzy]

10 hours ago, d9704011 said:

You’re referring to the PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act), not the Jones Act.

 

I suspect you are interested in this because of the no sail order and cruise restrictions due to coronavirus.  If that is the case what particular difference does it make?  Ships aren’t going anywhere while the coronavirus is such a problem.

My travel agent referred to it as the Jones Act when I booked a one day cruise along with a seven day cruise that would have violated it.  I cancelled that cruise.

 

I bring it up for a very rational reason.  The EU has put it in their suggested guidelines for restarting cruising and I wondered if the same idea could be applied to US only port cruises with a change of the law.

[cruzysuzy]

5 hours ago, Langley Cruisers said:

Thank you! Us too. I am immunocompromised and I am actually very careful in my everyday life. What used to be a nice evening out for dinner or a shopping trip to a home store (as examples) has turned into one of us going in for as short a time as possible, masked and aware of physical distancing. Sadly, we will never fly or cruise again.

 

Even if we didn't have Covid 19 cruising should in the future be avoided by anyone with an immnocompromised system or risk factors in any case.  Maybe Norovirus was the warning we didn't heed.  And then there is SARS, H1N1, etc.  The reality is that cruise ships sanitation efforts are pretty anemic against these virus strains.

[cruzysuzy]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:23 PM, njhorseman said:

Besides, I don't see what problem your idea is intended to solve. Lots and lots of people, even frequent cruisers like myself, want no part of cruising to anywhere until they're sure it's safe to do so...for example we have no intention of cruising until an effective vaccine for COVID-19 is developed, or until the disease somehow fades away.

In two words - closed foreign borders - like Canada right now.

[ldubs]

12 minutes ago, cruzysuzy said:

My travel agent referred to it as the Jones Act when I booked a one day cruise along with a seven day cruise that would have violated it.  I cancelled that cruise.

 

I bring it up for a very rational reason.  The EU has put it in their suggested guidelines for restarting cruising and I wondered if the same idea could be applied to US only port cruises with a change of the law.

 

The alternative to changing the Jones Act/PVSA is for the cruise lines to modify their operations to adhere to our existing laws.  I know that isn't going to happen realistically.   I understand the potential benefits to open up US only port cruises.   However,  I still have some issue with the concept of a business operating on American soil (so to speak) and not having to comply with our wage/hour laws.   I know there is more to it than that but that is my basic concern.   

 

 

[d9704011]

57 minutes ago, cruzysuzy said:

The EU has put it in their suggested guidelines for restarting cruising

What, exactly is 'it' that is in the EU suggested guidelines?  Surely not a reference to the PVSA?

Edited July 10, 2020 by d9704011