WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO RESTART CRUISE SHIPS???

[npcl]

18 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

It's on the CDC's flu page. Don't feel like looking for it again right now either.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

[Shadow9612]

On 5/10/2020 at 10:00 PM, bEwAbG said:

The fact is there is currently a subset of the population who thinks they cannot be told what to do & that all of this is unnecessary so they're going to do whatever they want. 

This is what gets me. 

 

I just don't get why people wouldn't follow the law (because its the law) and public health officials (because they're decisions are based on science, with the greater good of all of us in mind).

 

 

[Shadow9612]

13 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Yes once they put out the $20 watches and $10 Tee Shirts everybody will crowd around them.

Don't forget the free liquor tasting events, raffle draws, and champagne art auctions  😉

[Pushka]

On 5/11/2020 at 1:01 AM, CGTNORMANDIE said:

Hi Prim8,

 

Abbott Labs are currently producing 50,000  5 minute tests per day.  If passengers (pax) arrive at terminal and enter wearing masks and then are tested in the terminal as part of the security process then pax would be able to go onboard a ship that is totally negative.  The test also identifies those who are incubating.  You either have it or you don’t.  A ship that has tested negative can sail without much worry.  The problem then would be where to land?  Most likely the only island would be the private island.  Unless arrangements could be made for an isolation area on an island I’m afraid there are no fast answers.  If by some chance a pax show signs of any virus they would be isolated and removed from the ship immediately...by prior arrangement.  The cruise lines will design new methods of handling crew and passengers just as the airlines will have to do.

 

And what happens at the next port? And crew would also need to be tested at the same time  Every port. 

[Pushka]

7 hours ago, az_tchr said:

Remove New York from those numbers and most states are showing increasing numbers. 

 Same thing for countries that had little virus in February and March like Russia and Brazil.

With most of the US in some form of lockdown one might expect fewer cases.  Now that many states - with upward or flat case numbers - are opening, what will that bring?

 

We had less than 10 new infections yesterday throughout Australia. 

[Von & John]

I'm not sure in every state (speaking of the US only), in AK masks are recommended not required.

Many businesses, including shopping, are now requiring masks to gain entry.

Those who have breathing challenges (ex:  Asthma & COPD) are not required to wear masks - even in the businesses, which require everyone else to wear them.

When we have been in public in Anchorage - shopping / Surgeon's Visits - we have worn masks.

Most people we have seen have been wearing masks.

 

Alaska is one of the states which have now entered Phase 2 of the re-opening.

Our newly confirmed cases are declining & as of today (Sunday's #'s) - we are @ 86% Recovered.

Our 14-Day Quarantine is still required for everyone entering the state, including residents.

In addition, a number of communities still require a 14-Day Quarantine for entering their community, including residents.

 

We are currently waiting to see what will happen in the cruising world, before booking a cruise to replace our cancelled Eclipse 03/15 cruise...

Like many others - we will not cruise if masks are required on-board...

 

Hoping everyone stays Healthy & are able to return to cruising one day!

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Von & John

[yorky]

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1280939/ryanair-flights-return-july-holidays-coronavirus-lockdown-uk-news-latest

[CGTNORMANDIE]

6 hours ago, Pushka said:

 

And what happens at the next port? And crew would also need to be tested at the same time  Every port. 

That is the main problem.  Unless there is a protected zone on each island the cruise will be extremely limited to the private island or a protected zone.  The ship would become the destination until a vaccine can be perfected.  

[madmacs]

3 hours ago, yorky said:

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1280939/ryanair-flights-return-july-holidays-coronavirus-lockdown-uk-news-latest

Hopeful but won't get many customers if quarantine rules are still in place in July. 

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

That is the main problem.  Unless there is a protected zone on each island the cruise will be extremely limited to the private island or a protected zone.  The ship would become the destination until a vaccine can be perfected.  

All of the private islands have local day workers supplementing the staff provided by the ship. Consequently, they too would have to be tested daily before being admitted to the island.

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, OceanCruise said:

I think there are multiple issues if rapid testing is required. First of all, there are many false positives. Secondly, someone could be negative today and positive tomorrow. Thirdly, it becomes a slippery slope when you start collecting people's DNA. Who then has access to one's private medical information? Where exactly would you draw the line for screening for communicable diseases? X-rays to see if people have tuberculosis? After all, that is more communicable and deadly. What about stool samples for norovirus? Rapid tests for strep? Blood tests for hepatitis? Yes, of course those are obviously extreme examples but you get the idea when you start to give up your civil liberties for the greater good and I don't want to catch those diseases from someone else. Studies also show that bandanas and many homemade cloth masks are ineffective at filtering Covid particles, so why are those even considered acceptible? Even if you use medical masks, they must be used properly which probably 99% of the people (besides health workers) don't do. They are supposed to be used only once, not be touched at all while on the face, and hands should be washed before and after use. What do people do with their masks when eating? Put them on the table and thus spread germs? Go swimming then reuse the mask you have been breathing or coughing into then touch the chair, elevator buttons and handrails? If you look at the actual CDC statistics, mortality rate from Covid is no greater than seasonal flu in prior years. In fact, deaths from influenza is at an all time low. Is it possible hospitals are misclassifying Covid deaths because that diagnosis is reimbursed at a much higher rate than influenza or pneumonia? According to CDC, total deaths from all causes in the US are only 98% of expected deaths based on prior years so there is no actual surge in deaths (As of May 8). 

There was a study published by the Yale University School of Public Health which analyzed all deaths in the US in a one month period through April 4th.  Compared to the same 1 month period in previous years there was a substantial increase (15,400 excess deaths that were not COVID-19 related) over the same period from previous years.  The author's discuss reasons for this - but mainly due to people not having their usual access to medical care and procedures because of the shift to care for COVID patients and social distancing being applied to medical care.  I think this has slowly improved but it still an issue in many areas if you need a medical procedure.  The Washington Post article is included on the link.  You might need incognito mode to access it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/?arc404=true

[DYKWIA]

If Social distancing is applied at a port - say 2 metres (as in the UK) then with 3000 passengers a single queue would be 6km long of passengers (approx 4 miles).  If passengers congregated in an area then to maintain Social distancing each person needs 16 square metres of space. 3000 passengers =  48,000 square metres or about 7 football pitches.  Whilst Social distancing is in force I can't see a large cruise ship sailing.

[General's Lady]

Hcat (you helped me with getting my cruise fare back from BofA) and the other gentleman above who think they may have had Covid earlier.  Here's my story.  My husband and I were on the Celebrity Edge late November for nine days in the Caribbean.  We returned to Fort Lauderdale the Sunday before Thanksgiving, traveled to Atlanta for Thanksgiving with our daughter, woke up Tuesday before with what I thought was a head cold.  For me that means a few days coming on and a few days leaving.  By the following Saturday we took a flight to San Juan to board an Azamara ship for another seven days in the Caribbean.  On the flight I was suffering from a tremendous headache over my left eye, my left ear was killing me and my nose ran continually. I thought upon landing my head would clear.  No such luck, it was as if someone had stuffed my head with cotton and it continued for the whole next week.  I decided to go see the doctor after muster and she said there was nothing she could do for a virus.   I agreed because when you need antibiotics and you use them needlessly they don't always work.  But when I complained about my ear she took a look and saw how red it was.  She prescribed the Z-pack, and eardrops for both ears twice a day.  I then started with a dry cough that was choking at times and found it hard to catch my breath.  Of course, DH got it too.  Neither of us had fever but we were miserable and exhausted.  Upon arriving home around December 8 we would get up do a few things around the house and then both had to take a nap.  This continued for the next two weeks.  I thought I would have to cancel plans for company for Christmas.

 

We both get flu shots every year and neither of us have gotten the flu but this "cold" was unlike any I have ever had.  When I heard on the news that the doctors were going back further and further into December and late November, we looked at each other and could swear we think we had it.  I should also say my husband is a Vietnam vet and returned from Vietnam with what they called "a fever of an unknown origin" (supposedly not malaria).  He suffered with recurring fevers early in our marriage with very high temperatures and they would break and he would be fine till the next occurrence.  He said he never felt as bad with this bout in December as he had only one other time years ago.  So you have crew from all over, travel with passengers from all over and Covid was not even spoken about then.  I have a physical coming up in June and of course want to have an antibody test so that if I did have it and I recovered, I could donate plasma.  My husband cannot since he had that fever long ago from Vietnam.

 

In response to all the pages I've read above, I think it is too early to make a judgement about cruising or plane travel.  More will become apparent as time goes by.  We live in New York on Long Island and the past 8 weeks have been very trying socially distancing.  Our older daughter who is sheltering with us just heard of a good friend's uncle (62 years old), robust and in the hospital for two weeks on a ventilator who passed away.  We are big travelers and I've been going to Europe since I was 11 and am now 73.  Will I miss traveling, you bet but nothing is worth losing your life over or God forbid ending up in a hospital on a ventilator with no one being able to be with you.  Very sad and very sobering.   Just be patient everybody.  

[Retty2Go]

On 5/10/2020 at 8:35 AM, MrCoachRentz said:

I would get on a cruise ship tomorrow.  Studies are now showing that cruise ships are not the incubators they've been made out to be for this virus.  I've had nora on a cruise ship, it's a risk we take.  Of course, I'm not in a high risk category so the virus doesn't really scare me (don't get me wrong, I would prefer to not be sick, but, not fearful of my life).  

 

What studies? If so, why did the CDC extend the "No Sail Order?" https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/no-sail-order-cruise-ships-cetron-trnd/index.html

[yorky]

I find it just baffling in truth. My wife’s family have been hit badly, mum died in a care home which stated they had no virus but it states possible Coronavirus on the death certificate. Her sister who lives next door was hospitalised by it and is recovering. Her brother is in a high dependency unity with it, been on oxygen and Morphine but is slowly getting better. Both of their wife/Husband/and children are all virus free yet they live in the same house’s. Her sister works in a hospital more or less on her own and was distancing so should have been fairly safe. How can you catch it so easily yet have two individuals living with families and it’s not passed on. ?

[Retty2Go]

Slashed fares, limited capacities, and new safety measures (like those Genting [http://gentingcruiselines.com/media/1267/20200408-genting-cruise-lines-announces-enhanced-preventive-measures-setting-new-standards-for-the-fleet-and-the-cruise-industry.pdf] are implementing for Crystal and its brands), might inspire the confidence of some cruisers.  But modern ocean liners are not designed to operate at minimum capacities with slashed fares, so how long are such methods sustainable? There is also the upcoming recession (depression?) itself to consider. What with RCCL itself announcing layoffs, more are coming across industries, and obviously many of the jobs lost during this crisis are not coming back. Concerns about means, compounded by safety concerns, and the stress of navigating a mishmash of laws and orders doesn't make for a pleasant vacation. This leads me to agree with most analysts that people won't be traveling far from home, let alone cruising, in the near future.

 

Regardless of the offers, I think many travelers and cruisers may also feel like me, and have decided that they won't return to travel - at least, as it was pre-Covid-19 - until something assuring, preferably a vaccine, at least a remedy, is widely available.

[phoenix_dream]

1 hour ago, Retty2Go said:

What studies? If so, why did the CDC extend the "No Sail Order?" https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/no-sail-order-cruise-ships-cetron-trnd/index.html

I don't understand why this article is being labelled as an extension of the No Sail Order.  The order was released on April 11, and if you go to the CDC website the latest version of the order is the one from 4/11 with the date of July 24.  Am I missing something?

[Retty2Go]

9 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I don't understand why this article is being labelled as an extension of the No Sail Order.  The order was released on April 11, and if you go to the CDC website the latest version of the order is the one from 4/11 with the date of July 24.  Am I missing something?

Actually, on the guidance page it's April 9. However, this article, which begins "[a] "No Sail Order" for cruises has been extended until July 24 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention due to cruises' unique aspects that can cause coronavirus outbreaks," was after certain recent ambitious announcements to explain why they are, at least, impractical, even after that date, inasmuch as no one knows with certainty what the guidelines will entail.

[hcat]

2 hours ago, General's Lady said:

Hcat (you helped me with getting my cruise fare back from BofA) and the other gentleman above who think they may have had Covid earlier.  Here's my story.  My husband and I were on the Celebrity Edge late November for nine days in the Caribbean.  We returned to Fort Lauderdale the Sunday before Thanksgiving, traveled to Atlanta for Thanksgiving with our daughter, woke up Tuesday before with what I thought was a head cold.  For me that means a few days coming on and a few days leaving.  By the following Saturday we took a flight to San Juan to board an Azamara ship for another seven days in the Caribbean.  On the flight I was suffering from a tremendous headache over my left eye, my left ear was killing me and my nose ran continually. I thought upon landing my head would clear.  No such luck, it was as if someone had stuffed my head with cotton and it continued for the whole next week.  I decided to go see the doctor after muster and she said there was nothing she could do for a virus.   I agreed because when you need antibiotics and you use them needlessly they don't always work.  But when I complained about my ear she took a look and saw how red it was.  She prescribed the Z-pack, and eardrops for both ears twice a day.  I then started with a dry cough that was choking at times and found it hard to catch my breath.  Of course, DH got it too.  Neither of us had fever but we were miserable and exhausted.  Upon arriving home around December 8 we would get up do a few things around the house and then both had to take a nap.  This continued for the next two weeks.  I thought I would have to cancel plans for company for Christmas.

 

We both get flu shots every year and neither of us have gotten the flu but this "cold" was unlike any I have ever had.  When I heard on the news that the doctors were going back further and further into December and late November, we looked at each other and could swear we think we had it.  I should also say my husband is a Vietnam vet and returned from Vietnam with what they called "a fever of an unknown origin" (supposedly not malaria).  He suffered with recurring fevers early in our marriage with very high temperatures and they would break and he would be fine till the next occurrence.  He said he never felt as bad with this bout in December as he had only one other time years ago.  So you have crew from all over, travel with passengers from all over and Covid was not even spoken about then.  I have a physical coming up in June and of course want to have an antibody test so that if I did have it and I recovered, I could donate plasma.  My husband cannot since he had that fever long ago from Vietnam.

 

In response to all the pages I've read above, I think it is too early to make a judgement about cruising or plane travel.  More will become apparent as time goes by.  We live in New York on Long Island and the past 8 weeks have been very trying socially distancing.  Our older daughter who is sheltering with us just heard of a good friend's uncle (62 years old), robust and in the hospital for two weeks on a ventilator who passed away.  We are big travelers and I've been going to Europe since I was 11 and am now 73.  Will I miss traveling, you bet but nothing is worth losing your life over or God forbid ending up in a hospital on a ventilator with no one being able to be with you.  Very sad and very sobering.   Just be patient everybody.  

Glad your refund worked out

It was  helpful to hear your story... we also live on LI and are doing our best to be distancing..but I watch our grandson 2x a week at our home  so parents can work..one from home, one with the PD...  My dh has a part time  job that just re started, mine is down til August,  and I am relieved.. It is stressful and challenging !

We believe we had Covid in Feb but  not tested.either that or the enhanced flu shot was a monumental failure for us both!  Never felt so sick for so long. Attended a Zoom funeral service last week..very sobering indeed!

 

Hoping we can cruise out of Tampa next January if we can get down to Fla by then.

If we can't we'll accept the outcome...safe is better than dead

 

[TeeRick]

18 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

I don't understand why this article is being labelled as an extension of the No Sail Order.  The order was released on April 11, and if you go to the CDC website the latest version of the order is the one from 4/11 with the date of July 24.  Am I missing something?

No you are not missing anything.  Other than cruising!😀

[RichYak]

19 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

I don't understand why this article is being labelled as an extension of the No Sail Order.  The order was released on April 11, and if you go to the CDC website the latest version of the order is the one from 4/11 with the date of July 24.  Am I missing something?

It extended the No Sail Order given by the CDC in March that was set to expire.

[BigAl94]

Looks like problems with Norwegian Fjords from 2016, only zero emission ships (including noise) will be allowed in the Western Fjords - huge spend needed on ships or destination removed.

[Fouremco]

7 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

Looks like problems with Norwegian Fjords from 2016, only zero emission ships (including noise) will be allowed in the Western Fjords - huge spend needed on ships or destination removed.

2016?

 

Source?

[BigAl94]

6 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

2016?

 

Source?

Typo sorry, 2026  https://maritimecleantech.no/2018/05/03/norwegian-parliament-adopts-zero-emission-regulations-fjords/

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

Typo sorry, 2026  https://maritimecleantech.no/2018/05/03/norwegian-parliament-adopts-zero-emission-regulations-fjords/

Thank you for the link. I think that there are going to be more and more destinations starting to get tough with cruise lines, as Venice did and now Norway. Whether the cruise lines will comply or choose to skip Norway remains to be seen, but the decision couldn't have come at a worse time for them.

 

I'm glad that we spent two weeks cruising the fjords last summer.