Extra tipping

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

They could, they just don’t want to.  Many customers want to see the ‘lowest’ prices.  I’m not saying it’s totally rational, but that’s how many consumer brains work.  The add-ons (tips, gratuities, etc...) can be  applied after the commitment to buy has been made.

 

I would say a large part is also the need to show a low price on the internet to entice a click.  

[d9704011]

21 minutes ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Its the "sharp practice" the cheap airlines like Ryanair have used. Now not legal in Europe and UK

In Canada, air carriers have to show the full fare cost (reserving a seat and checking your luggage will likely cost more).  Cruise fares are typically advertised at the ‘lowest’ price possible; I’m not aware of any law that prohibits that.

[getting older slowly]

The Lowest Price... I do know somebody ( a relation ) who went on cruise....

 

for the lowest price... the cheapest indoor cabin,,,, Payed No tips ( in Australia Gratuities are not automatic )... drank water, tea and coffee from the buffet.   

their On Board Account at the end was ZERO..... and when in port just walk around the port area unless the bus into town was free... then back to ship for lunch

 

Afterwards his wife vowed never to go cruising again....

 

It takes all sorts......

 

Cheers Don.

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

The Lowest Price... I do know somebody ( a relation ) who went on cruise....

 

for the lowest price... the cheapest indoor cabin,,,, Payed No tips ( in Australia Gratuities are not automatic )... drank water, tea and coffee from the buffet.   

their On Board Account at the end was ZERO..... and when in port just walk around the port area unless the bus into town was free... then back to ship for lunch

 

Afterwards his wife vowed never to go cruising again....

 

It takes all sorts......

 

Cheers Don.

 

Oh boy.  Seems they didn't give it a fair shake.  

 

We have had a zero acct balance at least once, but that was because of abundant OBCs.  Haha.      

[getting older slowly]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Oh boy.  Seems they didn't give it a fair shake.  

 

We have had a zero acct balance at least once, but that was because of abundant OBCs.  Haha.      

 

The funny part is I think a few times our OBA would have more than their total cruise fare....

 

Yes it is nice to get OBC    never have a problem spending it....

[wowzz]

7 hours ago, clo said:

So you mean it wasn't a separate line item when you settled up at the end?

P&O have removed all auto gratuities, and, as it says in its brochure, tips are not " required or expected". 

So, the fare you pay is all you pay, other than discretionary spend such as drinks, specialty dining etc. 

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, wowzz said:

P&O have removed all auto gratuities, and, as it says in its brochure, tips are not " required or expected". 

So, the fare you pay is all you pay, other than discretionary spend such as drinks, specialty dining etc. 

If one staff member really went out of his way to assist you - and significantly contributed to your enjoyment of the cruise - would you feel inclined to offer some material expression of thanks?

[wowzz]

18 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

If one staff member really went out of his way to assist you - and significantly contributed to your enjoyment of the cruise - would you feel inclined to offer some material expression of thanks?

The answer is probably yes. And we still tip our steward a little at the end of the cruise as well. However,  the tip will not be anything like the size that I have seen quoted on here by some US cruisers. 

But, the crew do not expect anything, you dont have to add the cost of autogratuitues to the fare, and there aren't lines of pax at reception wanting to opt out of paying the autogratuitues. 

[GrJ Berkshire]

You can easily have a Zero shipboard a/c at the end with a luxury cruise line like Regent which is all paid for up front...…..and it does not cost much more than all the add on's and tips , with all excursions paid for , no bar bills and no hand out culture...….try it !!

[LHT28]

8 minutes ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

You can easily have a Zero shipboard a/c at the end with a luxury cruise line like Regent which is all paid for up front...…..and it does not cost much more than all the add on's and tips , with all excursions paid for , no bar bills and no hand out culture...….try it !!

Unless you use the spa or shops   then that is added  & not ALL excursions are included some are fee based but you could avoid those if you choose

 

[LHT28]

On 7/6/2020 at 9:18 PM, GrJ Berkshire said:

As a Brit I find this tipping idea so 19th century Master & servant , why not pay everything up front in a higher fare so the staff are not on slave wages and there is no need to pay them to do their job.

 

Funny  it was the Brits that started the whole tipping culture in the 17th Century

 

Aren't we  all Master(employer)  & Servant/Slaves (employee)  not every one received  fair wages  until the 20th Century  even now some Countries  still do not have   a fair wage  for their workers

[Toofarfromthesea]

17 hours ago, wowzz said:

Sorry, you need to explain to a non accountant what you mean.

My last cruise, I paid the fare, tips were included. Nothing extra to pay. So, why cannot all other cruise lines do the same?

 

If the cost of the cruise is $2000 and grats are $200, then the cruiseline has 2000 in revenue and is taxed on that 2,000 minus deductible expenses.  Say those expenses are 1600.  They have taxable income of 400.

Now assume instead that the price goes up to 2200, grats are eliminated, and employees get the extra 200 in increased wages to make up for not getting grats.   The deductible expenses are now the 1600 PLUS the 200 extra the cruiseline pays it's employees in lieu of grats.  Leaving a taxable income of the exact same 400.

[Toofarfromthesea]

17 hours ago, d9704011 said:

They could, they just don’t want to.  Many customers want to see the ‘lowest’ prices.  I’m not saying it’s totally rational, but that’s how many consumer brains work.  The add-ons (tips, gratuities, etc...) can be  applied after the commitment to buy has been made.

 

Where there IS a tax treatment difference is on the crew side.  Some of the countries the crews come from tax gratuity income at lower rates than regular wages.  So when you say they could but they don't want to, that is true.  But if they did it would be the crew members from those countries who are hurt.  Personally I prefer the system stay as it is so crew can benefit from their home country's tax policy.

Or their wages could be topped up further to make up for the employees' loss of favorable tax treatment, but then that would mean an increase in total fare, compared to the old fare plus grats.

[LHT28]

17 hours ago, wowzz said:

Sorry, you need to explain to a non accountant what you mean.

My last cruise, I paid the fare, tips were included. Nothing extra to pay. So, why cannot all other cruise lines do the same?

just stick to the lines that do not add the gratuity

UK lines & luxury lines

 

[navybankerteacher]

14 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

The Lowest Price... I do know somebody ( a relation ) who went on cruise....

 

for the lowest price... the cheapest indoor cabin,,,, Payed No tips ( in Australia Gratuities are not automatic )... drank water, tea and coffee from the buffet.   

their On Board Account at the end was ZERO..... and when in port just walk around the port area unless the bus into town was free... then back to ship for lunch

 

Afterwards his wife vowed never to go cruising again....

 

It takes all sorts......

 

Cheers Don.

He must be a lot of fun ashore, also.

[c-boy]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

He must be a lot of fun ashore, also.

🤣 +1

[getting older slowly]

Also when talking of the cost of a cruise we always added to the fare ( cabin ) and allow for the OBA and any extra tipping and that is the cost of the cruise......

 

If a remember even did that on our first cruise by allow spending money on board... 

 

I don't think it is a problem not being all included.... because then you are paying for what you use not for other things...

 

Cheers Don

 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, getting older slowly said:

Also when talking of the cost of a cruise we always added to the fare ( cabin ) and allow for the OBA and any extra tipping and that is the cost of the cruise......

 

If a remember even did that on our first cruise by allow spending money on board... 

 

I don't think it is a problem not being all included.... because then you are paying for what you use not for other things...

 

Cheers Don

 

 

Everyone's experience is going to be different, but in general I am well served with a la carte as opposed to all included.   I know that others find the ease of all inclusive to be important.  I can understand that too.     

[sparks1093]

11 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Everyone's experience is going to be different, but in general I am well served with a la carte as opposed to all included.   I know that others find the ease of all inclusive to be important.  I can understand that too.     

I like the idea of all inclusive but I look at what it includes and if it includes a lot of stuff that I have no interest in then I'm usually going to choose the a la carte option (unless the price is near the same). 

[ldubs]

9 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I like the idea of all inclusive but I look at what it includes and if it includes a lot of stuff that I have no interest in then I'm usually going to choose the a la carte option (unless the price is near the same). 

 

I think the convenience would be a big factor for all inclusive.  To be fair, we get freebies for drinks, internet, laundry, and then some OBC.  So we are able to live pretty high on the hog without a huge amount of out-of-pocket.  

Edited July 11, 2020 by ldubs
Ah, my wording wasn't really that good. Slightly better now. hah

[GrJ Berkshire]

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 5:15 PM, LHT28 said:

 

Funny  it was the Brits that started the whole tipping culture in the 17th Century

 

Aren't we  all Master(employer)  & Servant/Slaves (employee)  not every one received  fair wages  until the 20th Century  even now some Countries  still do not have   a fair wage  for their workers

Yes we might have started it in the 17th century: but we left it behind in the 20th century. It's so last century, we have almost left it behind us now. However in the States and on cruising tipping has almost gone out of control with 18 to 20% now becoming common. :.....MADNESS !!!!!!!!...

[clo]

15 minutes ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Yes we might have started it in the 17th century: but we left it behind in the 20th century. It's so last century, we have almost left it behind us now. However in the States and on cruising tipping has almost gone out of control with 18 to 20% now becoming common. :.....MADNESS !!!!!!!!...

This could be an enormous discussion and IS on food boards. But in the US a lot of the places that tried to do away with tipping had to raise prices in order to pay their staff a 'living wage.' And the customers pitched a fit. The super expensive spots, i.e., $1k for two people with wine still include the tips but few others do. I'm not sure about SFBA.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Yes we might have started it in the 17th century: but we left it behind in the 20th century. It's so last century, we have almost left it behind us now. However in the States and on cruising tipping has almost gone out of control with 18 to 20% now becoming common. :.....MADNESS !!!!!!!!...

I agree that the percentage should not increase - the same percentage should track the cost of living.  However - to the extent tipping is variable at the option of the tipper, it is not necessarily “madness”.  The amount of the tip  should reflect the quality of the service rendered - superb service rates a generous tip, while lackadaisical or careless service should get less, and dreadful service should get nothing.  

 

There is is a lot to say for incentive pay - most employers will pay competent and effective employees more - either with higher base pay or with bonuses on top of base pay.  What is true “madness” is to pay the same amount to careless, incompetent or lazy employees the same amount as given to diligent, competent and hardworking employees.

[getting older slowly]

36 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 The amount of the tip  should reflect the quality of the service rendered - superb service rates a generous tip, while lackadaisical or careless service should get less, and dreadful service should get nothing.  

Totally agree.... but often here in Australian   tips end up to tipping jar...and divided among the staff... which is so of ok... but when somebody does give you superb service I would like them to the get the tip... 

 

That is where the ""incentive pay""  is a good idea so everybody who is good,, front and back of house gets good money....

 

Cheers Don 

[2wheelin]

43 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I agree that the percentage should not increase - the same percentage should track the cost of living.  However - to the extent tipping is variable at the option of the tipper, it is not necessarily “madness”.  The amount of the tip  should reflect the quality of the service rendered - superb service rates a generous tip, while lackadaisical or careless service should get less, and dreadful service should get nothing.  

 

There is is a lot to say for incentive pay - most employers will pay competent and effective employees more - either with higher base pay or with bonuses on top of base pay.  What is true “madness” is to pay the same amount to careless, incompetent or lazy employees the same amount as given to diligent, competent and hardworking employees.

But in reality, the amount of a tip is more a reflection of the cost of service coupled with quality or service. Waiters in inexpensive restaurants get way less in tips even though they often work harder than those in expensive restaurants. I would rather tip based on service. Quality and time spent.

it’s a little more equitable I suppose on a cruise where the daily norm for tips is the same regardless of cost of cabin—except for suites I think. Never stayed in one.