No Sail Order Lifted

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

The virus test positive and deaths is really getting a bit much for totally incorrect numbers. No matter. How about posting those that have heart disease every day and die every day from heart disease. This year alone in NY city an average of 50 deaths a DAY died from hear disease and are also counted as virus deaths. Cancer deaths and such. The virus will eventually drop when the vaccine is administered, That is if everyone takes it as for the flu not everyone does.  Heart disease will not and that is mainly because people do not care about it. No one can control what a person does with their health. So, I for one do not care either. I will value my life every day and take care of my self. What others do is totally their decision and will live or die by it.

[memoak]

Face it this pandemic will not go away until there is a vaccine. Even Utah now has a statewide mask mandate and limited social functions. Stay masked and stay safe. 

[MissP22]

On 11/7/2020 at 11:29 AM, Daniel A said:

Enough said?    

Yep.

[caribill]

16 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

 No one can control what a person does with their health. So, I for one do not care either. I will value my life every day and take care of my self. What others do is totally their decision and will live or die by it.

 

What others do concerning masks can make the difference for you to catch the virus or not.

 

When others decide not to wear masks, you could die from it.

[MissP22]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

What others do concerning masks can make the difference for you to catch the virus or not.

 

When others decide not to wear masks, you could die from it.

That's exactly why people should not cruise before there's a proven vaccine & they make it mandatory to have received it before boarding.

I know it sounds a little over the top but there's really not a way to enforce people to fully comply all the time.

[Keksie]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

What others do concerning masks can make the difference for you to catch the virus or not.

 

When others decide not to wear masks, you could die from it.

Maybe when you go someplace and the people are not following the protocols you think they should you can just not go in.  Not everyone who has gotten the virus has gotten it from people not wearing masks.  

[Steelers36]

12 minutes ago, Keksie said:

Maybe when you go someplace and the people are not following the protocols you think they should you can just not go in.  Not everyone who has gotten the virus has gotten it from people not wearing masks.  

Or, to put it another way, masks are no guarantee at all for not catching the virus.  They just reduce the chances.

 

[generichandle]

56 minutes ago, Keksie said:

Maybe when you go someplace and the people are not following the protocols you think they should you can just not go in.  Not everyone who has gotten the virus has gotten it from people not wearing masks.  

Yeah, and if people are drunk and driving, you just should not drive, because you can't take away their rights to risk your life any other way!

[Daniel A]

27 minutes ago, generichandle said:

Yeah, and if people are drunk and driving, you just should not drive, because you can't take away their rights to risk your life any other way!

People who drive drunk and get caught are arrested and criminally prosecuted.  Are we going to start jailing people who don't wear a mask?  What if they still don't wear a mask while in jail?  Fining people just puts more money into the government's hands and fines are really more of a tax on unlawful conduct. 

 

So, how do you suggest we enforce a mask mandate?

 

People who don't want to risk their health by being in a smoking environment generally just don't go to places where smoking is permitted. 

[HappyInVan]

We have to be realistic. We can't cruise out of high risk areas in this political climate. It's just a matter of time before they are forced to close down as hospitals and ICU fill up.

 

In Utah, the governor finally imposed a mask mandate and social restrictions...

 

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/11/08/utah-governor-issue-new/

 

However, restrictions don't apply to churches and mask enforcement will be uncertain..

 

https://www.fox13now.com/news/coronavirus/local-coronavirus-news/if-utah-county-implements-a-mask-mandate-the-sheriff-wont-enforce-it

 

Won't succeed in controlling the epidemic. At best, it might blunt the escalation in infections.

 

 

 

[d9704011]

Utah is an excellent choice for demonstrating mask mandates in a cruise forum.  Even for flights to get to cruise departure cities there couldn’t have bee a better choice except, maybe, North Dakota.

[Daniel A]

5 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Utah is an excellent choice for demonstrating mask mandates in a cruise forum.  Even for flights to get to cruise departure cities there couldn’t have bee a better choice except, maybe, North Dakota.

I was hoping to sail from Phoenix to Salt Lake City later this year.  🤪

[HappyInVan]

Phew! This is a tough crowd.

 

Anyway, it illustrates my point that leakage from high risk areas will affect low risk areas. Unless, you have an effective quarantine like NYC. Last I checked, positivity rate just 3% (not 50%).

 

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Map?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n

 

I would suggest that FL do the same. What do you think?

 

 

[USCcruisecrazy]

16 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Phew! This is a tough crowd.

 

Anyway, it illustrates my point that leakage from high risk areas will affect low risk areas. Unless, you have an effective quarantine like NYC. Last I checked, positivity rate just 3% (not 50%).

 

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Map?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n

 

I would suggest that FL do the same. What do you think?

 

 

Serious question: Isn't positivity Rate directly correlated to the test rate?  In other words, if you only test those exhibiting symptoms, your positivity rate will be way higher than if you test anyone and everyone.  I think the 2 stats that are important to look at froma statistical analysis viewpoint are hospitalizations and deaths...both of which have steadily declined in our area.

Edited November 10, 2020 by USCcruisecrazy

[generichandle]

16 minutes ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Serious question: Isn't positivity Rate directly correlated to the test rate?  In other words, if you only test those exhibiting symptoms, your positivity rate will be way higher than if you test anyone and everyone.  I think the 2 stats that are important to look at froma statistical analysis viewpoint are hospitalizations and deaths...both of which have steadily declined in our area.

 

16 minutes ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Serious question: Isn't positivity Rate directly correlated to the test rate?  In other words, if you only test those exhibiting symptoms, your positivity rate will be way higher than if you test anyone and everyone.  I think the 2 stats that are important to look at froma statistical analysis viewpoint are hospitalizations and deaths...both of which have steadily declined in our area.

Yep, the best way to cut down on COVID infections is to stop testing. And after that, we should cut down on teen pregnancy by making pregnancy tests illegal too!

[generichandle]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

People who drive drunk and get caught are arrested and criminally prosecuted.  Are we going to start jailing people who don't wear a mask?  What if they still don't wear a mask while in jail?  Fining people just puts more money into the government's hands and fines are really more of a tax on unlawful conduct. 

 

So, how do you suggest we enforce a mask mandate?

 

People who don't want to risk their health by being in a smoking environment generally just don't go to places where smoking is permitted. 

Handcuffed behind the back while in jail might help ...... but I must admit those in complete denial might just need a lobotomy and some toilet training. 

 

How is it that places like S Korea and Taiwan get virtually 100% cooperation in their efforts, and have fantastic results, while 'freedom loving' folk here cry and moan whenever they are asked to be in any way responsible?

[USCcruisecrazy]

12 minutes ago, generichandle said:

 

Yep, the best way to cut down on COVID infections is to stop testing. And after that, we should cut down on teen pregnancy by making pregnancy tests illegal too!

Thanks for the smart @SS answer!  Very educated response.

[generichandle]

1 minute ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Thanks for the smart @SS answer!  Very educated response.

 

1 minute ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Thanks for the smart @SS answer!  Very educated response.

You're welcome

[SNJCruisers]

45 minutes ago, generichandle said:

 

How is it that places like S Korea and Taiwan get virtually 100% cooperation in their efforts, and have fantastic results, while 'freedom loving' folk here cry and moan whenever they are asked to be in any way responsible?

Because S Korea and Taiwan are regimented countries where the citizens do what is needed for the common good.  Meanwhile, the numerous members of the "me society" that reside in the good ole USA will do what pleases themselves and for the most part have no empathy for anyone outside of their circle. If decisions they make are detrimental towards the common good, they just don't care.

[HappyInVan]

1 hour ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

I think the 2 stats that are important to look at froma statistical analysis viewpoint are hospitalizations and deaths...both of which have steadily declined in our area.

 

Looks better than Florida!

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states/south-carolina

 

What's your government going to do once the rate tops 5%? Infections bound to rise as the surrounding states spike. Hospitalizations and deaths follow.

 

Here's my famous 'brakes' analogy. Any place where the residents are unwilling to reduce in-person social relationships is in trouble. The scary part is that some places have no brakes on the epidemic.

 

Analogy. We're riding a vehicle going downhill. Without brakes, the vehicle will accelerate until it overturns. Passengers may hope that the vehicle reaches the flatland before the accident. But, hope is not a plan.

 

With brakes, we can try to de-accelerate the vehicle. Reaching the flatland in a controlled descent.

 

Is your government able to apply the brakes? Ask for sacrifices for another 6 months?

 

IMHO, its a waste of time booking cruises out of high risk regions. Post-vaccination, we will still need to distance/mask on the ships.

Edited November 10, 2020 by HappyInVan

[SNJCruisers]

6 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

IMHO, its a waste of time booking cruises out of high risk regions. Post-vaccination, we will still need to distance/mask on the ships.

So at what point do you hypothesize that cruising will return to pre-pandemic normal?  2022? 2023?

[Mike45LC]

8 hours ago, MissP22 said:

That's exactly why people should not cruise before there's a proven vaccine & they make it mandatory to have received it before boarding.

I know it sounds a little over the top but there's really not a way to enforce people to fully comply all the time.

Miss P22, I don't care if the cruise line makes the vaccine mandatory or not.  If I have a 90% (+) effective vaccination, and someone else wants to take the risk, his decision should not make me vulnerable -- I've been vaccinated.  Let the anti-vac people take the risk, it is not endangering me.

 

Until I learned that very young children were put at risk from non-vaccinated older children, I never understood why I should care if anti-vac parents refused to get their kids vaccinated.  I thought "it is their kids, let them get sick."  I did not understand that there really was a public health risk from the anti-vac'ers.  

 

Once the vaccine is approved and distributed, it comes back down to a matter of personal choice.

 

[USCcruisecrazy]

25 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Looks better than Florida!

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states/south-carolina

 

What's your government going to do once the rate tops 5%? Infections bound to rise as the surrounding states spike. Hospitalizations and deaths follow.

 

Here's my famous 'brakes' analogy. Any place where the residents are unwilling to reduce in-person social relationships is in trouble. The scary part is that some places have no brakes on the epidemic.

 

Analogy. We're riding a vehicle going downhill. Without brakes, the vehicle will accelerate until it overturns. Passengers may hope that the vehicle reaches the flatland before the accident. But, hope is not a plan.

 

With brakes, we can try to de-accelerate the vehicle. Reaching the flatland in a controlled descent.

 

Is your government able to apply the brakes? Ask for sacrifices for another 6 months?

 

IMHO, its a waste of time booking cruises out of high risk regions. Post-vaccination, we will still need to distance/mask on the ships.

In SC our Governor, in conjunction with his medical team, weighed all the factors relevant to our state.  The entire Coastal Region is dependent on tourism...without it they all die.  The Upstate is very dependent on Manufacturing...it's their life line.  The Midlands are a combination of Manufacturing and Agriculture.  So, each Region works things to meet their needs...how to keep the economy going while protecting the most at risk.  Hospitals have been open for months to anyone seeking medical advice...Tourism has opened for things like golfers and beach goers...Manufacturing has learned how to meet goals while taking safety precautions.  But most important, our Governor found ways to keep life going without risking those that needed to be isolated.  It was determined that the consequences of destroying an economy were more detrimental in the long run than the lockdowns would be beneficial.  I can tell you this much...the attitude among South Carolinians is great...we are making life work for all of our benefit.  For those children suffering while be forced to isolate...to the small mom and pop businesses that would have folded...to the psyche of our residents...and it is going along as well as one could have hoped.  Yes, there are still deaths associated with Covid (2 yesterday in a state of 5 1/2 million)...even one is too many, but we say that about all deaths because they are tragic to someone.  The issue we addressed in SC was making sure the cure was not more deadly than the disease and I think we have done well in that regard. I can guarnatee you this...our State will not shut down...which of course does not mean we won't stop mitigating as best we can while maintaining our livelihoods.

[HappyInVan]

44 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

So at what point do you hypothesize that cruising will return to pre-pandemic normal?  2022? 2023?

 

I have no idea. What will be, will be.

 

I'm not bothered by distancing and masks. I'll be on the cruise ships out of low risk areas, as long as I don't have a 14-day quarantine at each end.

 

BTW, did I mention that I had already contracted the disease.

Edited November 10, 2020 by HappyInVan

[ontheweb]

37 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

 

Until I learned that very young children were put at risk from non-vaccinated older children, I never understood why I should care if anti-vac parents refused to get their kids vaccinated.  I thought "it is their kids, let them get sick."  I did not understand that there really was a public health risk from the anti-vac'ers.  

 

It also affect those who medically are better off without a vaccine, whether because of compromised immunity or allergic reactions. Those not getting the vaccine for other reasons cut down the chance for herd immunity. That is why my state eliminated the religious exemption for the measles vaccine once there was an outbreak in some areas of the state due to lower rates of vaccinations for school children.