Hawaii cruise; must I get off to visit Mexico?

[joeyancho]

I agree with RSS. I love Ensenada. I'd like to go to the Bufadora and eat fresh  fish tacos and drink margaritas and take in the beautiful view of the coast. Shopping there is fun also

Edited March 6, 2021 by joeyancho

[Vic The Parrot]

This is interesting. I was under the impression that no pax were allowed ashore during this port stop.

 

  At least that's how I remembered it. I was on a Hawaii cruise on Rotterdam V, and Ensenada was a stop right after LA, and another visit before disembarking in LA a few weeks later.  

 

And I recall both times, we were picking up, and discharging passengers, and everyone else weren't allowed to leave. 

Maybe the itinerary had something to do with it? Or perhaps they changed the rules? This was way back in 1992, so anything could have been a factor. 

 

In the meantime, I'll check my ol memory chip, and post the details of the itinerary. Maybe ChengP or another member with this knowledge will sort it out.  

 

 

Stay tuned ...  😎

[caribill]

12 hours ago, Vic The Parrot said:

This is interesting. I was under the impression that no pax were allowed ashore during this port stop.

 

  At least that's how I remembered it. I was on a Hawaii cruise on Rotterdam V, and Ensenada was a stop right after LA, and another visit before disembarking in LA a few weeks later.  

 

And I recall both times, we were picking up, and discharging passengers, and everyone else weren't allowed to leave. 

Maybe the itinerary had something to do with it? Or perhaps they changed the rules? This was way back in 1992, so anything could have been a factor.

 

 

Yes, the rules did change since 1992. Back then the ship could do a "technical visit" to satisfy the PVSA requirements, just being there and having port documents signed.

 

Now the law has been interpreted to eliminate technical visits. Passengers must be allowed (but do have have to) go on shore.

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Yes, the rules did change since 1992. Back then the ship could do a "technical visit" to satisfy the PVSA requirements, just being there and having port documents signed.

 

Now the law has been interpreted to eliminate technical visits. Passengers must be allowed (but do have have to) go on shore.

Yes, this change came after NCL complained after they received their waver for cruises to Hawaii.

[skynight]

18 hours ago, Vic The Parrot said:

This is interesting. I was under the impression that no pax were allowed ashore during this port stop.

 

  At least that's how I remembered it. I was on a Hawaii cruise on Rotterdam V, and Ensenada was a stop right after LA, and another visit before disembarking in LA a few weeks later.  

 

And I recall both times, we were picking up, and discharging passengers, and everyone else weren't allowed to leave. 

Maybe the itinerary had something to do with it? Or perhaps they changed the rules? This was way back in 1992, so anything could have been a factor. 

 

In the meantime, I'll check my ol memory chip, and post the details of the itinerary. Maybe ChengP or another member with this knowledge will sort it out.  

 

 

Stay tuned ...  😎

Rules changed many years ago sometime after 2005. It's a full port stop now like any other. 2005 was the first time we sailed the Hawaii route. Back then our Ensenada stop was just four hours long. You were permitted to get off, but you had to hurry. I remember getting off and walking around the pier side store and the pier area. Believe it was in the evening. Some passengers made the quick trip into town. Back then Princess stopped at 5 Hawaii ports, we also stopped at Kona. They don't stop there any more.

If your cruise stopped at Ensenada before going to Hawaii, you most likely had to pass through immigration in Hawaii. By sailing direct from LA to Hawaii there is no immigration process until you disembark in LA.

[cr8tiv1]

4 hours ago, skynight said:

Rules changed many years ago sometime after 2005. It's a full port stop now like any other. 2005 was the first time we sailed the Hawaii route. Back then our Ensenada stop was just four hours long. You were permitted to get off, but you had to hurry. I remember getting off and walking around the pier side store and the pier area. Believe it was in the evening. Some passengers made the quick trip into town. Back then Princess stopped at 5 Hawaii ports, we also stopped at Kona. They don't stop there any more.

If your cruise stopped at Ensenada before going to Hawaii, you most likely had to pass through immigration in Hawaii. By sailing direct from LA to Hawaii there is no immigration process until you disembark in LA.

 

Sort of....Honolulu is my "home" although I reside on the Continental US.  I often used Princess to ferry items back and forth.  Once I was stopped and told I had to "declare" customs in HNL even though we did not stop in any foreign country before arriving in Hilo/HNL.  I was told to wait at security as they checked for a CBP.  An hour later and I was cleared to go with a stern warning to next time prepare a declaration form.

 

So the next time I did.  After several days of discussion with the Purser's desk (aka...old), I was told to fill out the form and report to the CBP officer who was coming on board at 6 AM to process off crew.  LONG LONG LONG story (2 hours long).  But finally "cleared" to leave with my items for my daughter.  

 

Back to Ensenada.  Yes, Ensenada was just a pit stop on the way to Hilo.  You had to clear customs/immigration in Hilo which cut into your already short port.  I heard that Ensenada became a full stop because the Mexican officials wanted the passengers to spend money there.  So they cut out Kona to make up for the time.  Interesting take on NCL.

 

[Astro Flyer]

23 hours ago, Vic The Parrot said:

This was way back in 1992, so anything could have been a factor. 

In January 1992 we sailed the original Pacific Princess from Ensenada to Honolulu.

 

Our Princess trip began at a San Diego hotel for a buffet dinner & then a bus ride to Ensenada to board the ship that evening for a 5 day cruise to Honolulu. I don’t know the reason why the cruise didn’t begin in SD with a technical stop in Ensenada...maybe it was cheaper to bus passengers from SD to Ensenada.

[skynight]

54 minutes ago, Astro Flyer said:

In January 1992 we sailed the original Pacific Princess from Ensenada to Honolulu.

 

Our Princess trip began at a San Diego hotel for a buffet dinner & then a bus ride to Ensenada to board the ship that evening for a 5 day cruise to Honolulu. I don’t know the reason why the cruise didn’t begin in SD with a technical stop in Ensenada...maybe it was cheaper to bus passengers from SD to Ensenada.

Answer: Passenger Vessel Service Act. For a non-US flagged vessel to board passengers at one US port and disembark them in a different US port the vessel must stop at a distant foreign port. The closest Pacific coast distant foreign port to the US would be in South America. Ensenada is not a distant foreign port as defined by the Act. You are permitted to board in Mexico and then disembark in Hawaii. This is why your cruise bused you to Ensenada. Nothing to do with cost.

It is also the reason why full transit Panama Canal cruises from LA to Ft. Lauderdale always stop in either Colombia or one of the ABC islands. These are defined as distant foreign ports. Other islands in the Caribbean and countries in Central America are not defined as distant foreign ports. 

[trbarton]

1 hour ago, skynight said:

Answer: Passenger Vessel Service Act. For a non-US flagged vessel to board passengers at one US port and disembark them in a different US port the vessel must stop at a distant foreign port. The closest Pacific coast distant foreign port to the US would be in South America. Ensenada is not a distant foreign port as defined by the Act. You are permitted to board in Mexico and then disembark in Hawaii. This is why your cruise bused you to Ensenada. Nothing to do with cost.

It is also the reason why full transit Panama Canal cruises from LA to Ft. Lauderdale always stop in either Colombia or one of the ABC islands. These are defined as distant foreign ports. Other islands in the Caribbean and countries in Central America are not defined as distant foreign ports. 

I’m traveling from San Francisco in December 2021 to Hawaii with a stop in Ensenada before to San Francisco. Reading what you wrote it appears that our stop in Ensenada no longer Satisfies the PVSA act. Is this something new?  I’ve not heard of this before. Princess also has West Coast cruises with a stop in Ensenada. 
 

Tom🤔

[beg3yrs]

40 minutes ago, trbarton said:

I’m traveling from San Francisco in December 2021 to Hawaii with a stop in Ensenada before to San Francisco. Reading what you wrote it appears that our stop in Ensenada no longer Satisfies the PVSA act. Is this something new?  I’ve not heard of this before. Princess also has West Coast cruises with a stop in Ensenada. 
 

Tom🤔

Round trips only have to have any foreign port, not a distant one.

Edited March 7, 2021 by beg3yrs

[skynight]

2 hours ago, trbarton said:

I’m traveling from San Francisco in December 2021 to Hawaii with a stop in Ensenada before to San Francisco. Reading what you wrote it appears that our stop in Ensenada no longer Satisfies the PVSA act. Is this something new?  I’ve not heard of this before. Princess also has West Coast cruises with a stop in Ensenada. 
 

Tom🤔

Yours is a RT, SF to SF. RT voyages may stop at any foreign port. The distant foreign port requirement is only for sailings between different US ports. Astro Flyer's cruise embarked in Ensenada and disembarked in Hawaii. Foreign to U.S.. It was not subject to the Act.

[ontheweb]

43 minutes ago, skynight said:

Yours is a RT, SF to SF. RT voyages may stop at any foreign port. The distant foreign port requirement is only for sailings between different US ports. Astro Flyer's cruise embarked in Ensenada and disembarked in Hawaii. Foreign to U.S.. It was not subject to the Act.

If it had been one way between a California port and Hawaii, it would have been subject to the PVSA requirements, hence the bus to start the cruise in Ensenada. Round trip as you said has a different set of rules.

[rbtan]

On 3/3/2021 at 4:33 PM, jebbs said:

Hi all,

Looking at a West Coast to Hawaii round trip cruise.  I realize ship must go to Mexico.  My question is, must I get off?

It looks like an afternoon, evening port, we arrive to home port the next morning.  I’d prefer a leisurely day on board, nice dinner 

and packing.  We would fly back to the East Coast upon disembarking.

Thanks!

We did this cruise last year(among the last!)We did get off, but ate a decent lunch & went back on board. A great spa day to be had. Not too much in Ensenada. If you want to see Sea lions, you can see plenty on shore from atop the ship.

[CruiserBruce]

On 3/7/2021 at 3:41 PM, skynight said:

Yours is a RT, SF to SF. RT voyages may stop at any foreign port. The distant foreign port requirement is only for sailings between different US ports. Astro Flyer's cruise embarked in Ensenada and disembarked in Hawaii. Foreign to U.S.. It was not subject to the Act.

Better worded...a roundtrip cruise from a US port MUST (not may) stop at a distant port. And a "distant foreign port " is a different meaning.

[navybankerteacher]

On 3/3/2021 at 4:33 PM, jebbs said:

Hi all,

Looking at a West Coast to Hawaii round trip cruise.  I realize ship must go to Mexico.  My question is, must I get off?

It looks like an afternoon, evening port, we arrive to home port the next morning.  I’d prefer a leisurely day on board, nice dinner 

and packing.  We would fly back to the East Coast upon disembarking.

Thanks!

No need to get off -- nor is there a real reason to, unless you need to buy some "Mexican souvenirs" - most probably made on another continent.

 

Also, why not consider spending the debarkation day and night  in the arrival port, checking things out -- a flight which will get you to the East coast at any reasonable hour will be leaving California pretty early - and might be missed if there is any delay in arriving/debarkation.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Better worded...a roundtrip cruise from a US port MUST (not may) stop at a distant port. And a "distant foreign port " is a different meaning.

No, your wording is also incorrect...what I've highlighted in red should read "foreign port", not "distant port" 

[navybankerteacher]

16 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

No, your wording is also incorrect...what I've highlighted in red should read "foreign port", not "distant port" 

Right — the fairly recent interpretation of US laws which made “cruises to nowhere” illegal, require a stop in “a foreign port”.   It only needs to be a distant foreign port if the itinerary is not a round trip.

 

i seem to recall that, for some reason, Ensenada was a port of embarkation for Hawaii cruises - people were bussed there from California - which somehow satisfied some regulation - and that was when people already on the ship were not permitted off.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Right — the fairly recent interpretation of US laws which made “cruises to nowhere” illegal, require a stop in “a foreign port”.   It only needs to be a distant foreign port if the itinerary is not a round trip.

 

i seem to recall that, for some reason, Ensenada was a port of embarkation for Hawaii cruises - people were bussed there from California - which somehow satisfied some regulation - and that was when people already on the ship were not permitted off.

The "cruise to nowhere" issue is  different. Cruises to nowhere are actually legal under the PVSA. You can see that in this CBP publication https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/PVSA-ICP.pdf on pages 15 - 16 where exceptions to the PVSA are defined. 

 

 The problem with cruises to nowhere is a DHS ruling requiring crew to have a different type of visa in order to be legally working on a ship that does not call on a foreign port. Even if the ship enters international waters DHS ruled that the crew would be considered to be working solely in the US if no foreign port call is made.

 

If passengers were bussed between California and Ensenada that meant the cruise either started or ended in Ensenada, which would eliminate the PVSA issue, as the PVSA only applies to cruises both starting and ending in the USA. By starting or ending in Mexico rather than California you could legally do Ensenada to Hawaii to California, or California to Hawaii to Ensenada. It's no different than an Alaskan cruise starting  in Vancouver, visiting ports in Alaska and ending in Seattle or starting in Seattle, visiting Alaska and ending in Vancouver.

Edited March 11, 2021 by njhorseman

[CruiserBruce]

9 hours ago, njhorseman said:

No, your wording is also incorrect...what I've highlighted in red should read "foreign port", not "distant port" 

You are correct. My point was a foreign port for a roundtrip cruise was required, not an option.

[SelectSys]

On 3/4/2021 at 4:10 AM, CCFC said:

Our cruise director said that Ensenada was Mexican for "Stay on the ship"

That's fairly shocking to hear.  Ensenada and the surrounding area are really quite nice as many of the posters here have indicated. 

 

On 3/5/2021 at 10:21 PM, RSS from SF said:

We have enjoyed some inspired food experiences in Ensenada.

 

If you want to know more about the Tijuana to Ensenada corridor, I recommend watching "Crossing South" that is produced by our local PBS affiliate in San Diego.  Nine seasons of shows provide lots of content to review.  Here is the link:

 

https://www.pbs.org/show/crossing-south/episodes/season/9/

 

BTW - Jorge Meraz, the host, is a huge fan of eating and food is a big part of every show. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by SelectSys

[clo]

On 3/5/2021 at 10:21 PM, RSS from SF said:

For the best birria (some say best in Baja), walk over to Birreria La Guadalajara { TripAdvisor / Yelp }.

•  

Made with goat, I assume.

[RSS from SF]

On 3/5/2021 at 10:21 PM, RSS from SF said:

For the best birria (some say best in Baja), walk over to Birreria La Guadalajara { TripAdvisor / Yelp }.

•  

 

8 hours ago, clo said:

Made with goat, I assume.

 

• Yes -- Goat / birria de chivo [my first choice] -- as well as Lamb / birria de borrego, Beef / birria de res, -and- Pork / birria de puerco:
  

----

[SelectSys]

After some Birria, you can stroll up the street and go to Husong's.  Skip the Papas & Beer and go see a truly historic cantina!  Relax over a beer or two and tip the mariachis to hear some music.   

 

People have been enjoying Husong's since before 1900 - which is a long time in these parts for a continuously operating business!

 

 

 

[ldubs]

On 3/11/2021 at 9:02 AM, SelectSys said:

That's fairly shocking to hear.  Ensenada and the surrounding area are really quite nice as many of the posters here have indicated. 

 

 

If you want to know more about the Tijuana to Ensenada corridor, I recommend watching "Crossing South" that is produced by our local PBS affiliate in San Diego.  Nine seasons of shows provide lots of content to review.  Here is the link:

 

https://www.pbs.org/show/crossing-south/episodes/season/9/

 

BTW - Jorge Meraz, the host, is a huge fan of eating and food is a big part of every show. 

 

I can only get episodes on YouTube.  I watched the one about Bahia De Los Angeles.  Pretty good show.  The host is likable.  I like this because it can open up new places to explore that are relatively close by.   Nice.   

[SelectSys]

14 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I can only get episodes on YouTube.  I watched the one about Bahia De Los Angeles.  Pretty good show.  The host is likable.  I like this because it can open up new places to explore that are relatively close by.   Nice.   

Glad you enjoyed the show!  I think it  provides a glimpse of what is a very unique and special place.  I simply shake my head at those that are dismissive of Baja as not being worthy to visit or of being some kind of crime-ridden shooting gallery.  San Diego without Tijuana and Baja to the south wouldn't be nearly as nice a place to live.