Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)

[Just_Westy]

1 minute ago, resistk said:

The lines  IMO are placing short terms revenue over the long term health of the industry. 

 

Probably not far away from the Cruise Lines parking up for a while as it's only a matter of time before another ship records cases of Covid-19. 

 

We have community transmission of this virus worldwide now and I really wouldn't want to be on a ship when an outbreak occurs.

[AlyssaJames]

I don’t know how this strange “infected crew from Diamond ended up all the way over on Grand” notion keeps persisting, but I think people aren’t taking into account that there are other confirmed cases all over CA that have nothing to do with this. A worker at LAX has tested positive (let that one sink in). SF is a huge, international city with lots of travel ties with Asia. This is Occam’s Razor territory.

 

I think the most likely explanation for their bad luck is Princess has more ships operating in areas of potential exposure, with a slightly older clientele. For example, I don’t think NCL has a single ship out of California, do they?

[milolii]

Good luck everyone 

Edited March 5, 2020 by milolii
Spelling

[luckyinpa]

any info on how many cases are in florida, the cruise capitol of the world. id assume a lot if cruise ships really are the carriers the media portrays them to be

[GonzoWCS]

37 minutes ago, Just_Westy said:

 

Probably not far away from the Cruise Lines parking up for a while as it's only a matter of time before another ship records cases of Covid-19. 

 

We have community transmission of this virus worldwide now and I really wouldn't want to be on a ship when an outbreak occurs.

Concur!  Come on Princess take a look towards your loyal customer base and start taking some action...

[Paula B]

Praying for everyone's health

[GatorMomInNC]

1 hour ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Been wading through the posts and there's a lot of valid points being made, and rightfully so a lot of concern expressed as well for the current situation and future sailings, etc...

 

That said, and this is not meant to be disrespectful to those dealing with the situation onboard Grand or previously on Diamond but it seems clear that like any large company, profits drive all or most decisions.  If there were people who were symptomatic of a 'flu like' illness on a prior cruise, why was that not more strictly investigated?  Of course this is speculation and if we all knew the future we'd be making decisions accordingly but it seems to  me like the industry in general is too hasty to maintain their profit margins with timely departures/arrivals, etc. as opposed to using some due diligence to ensure the health and well  being of its passengers especially in such a climate where everyone with a sniffle is subconsciously seen as being contagious of something...

 

Plenty of comments about cleaning, fogging, etc. and as one post accurately described the measures in place in NY transit it would appear as those tasked with the job are just going through the motions with a spray and wipe approach.  Surely if a disinfectant of any kind is to be deemed effective then there needs to be contact time with the surface greater than a second or two?  We've all seen the mad dash that is turnaround day with the crew running around like headless chickens trying to make ready the ship for the next cruise which leads me to think that the hasty approach is no doubt a contributing factor to the current issues, hence the reason that cruises which are affected by outbreaks of Noro-virus tend to carry over in some way or another.

 

Hopefully this gets resolved with minimal damage,  but if the current numbers are accurate with 11 pax & 10 crew showing 'flu like' symptoms i'm certain that number will increase exponentially due to the close confines and varied onset times of symptoms.  Guess the positive is that they're at least going to be berthed in SFO as opposed to Japan as/when they're permitted entry.

 

 

I don't think that Princess can be expected to know the health status of everyone when they disembark, unless that passenger has gone to the infirmary.

 

What I do think is that ALL cruise lines should tell all passengers with cruises in the next 3 mos. that they can cancel without penalty. Then whoever chooses to cruise is doing so without any regard to the cost of the cruise itself.  That would allow the cruiseline to also determine if it is worth their while to sail the ship with whatever passengers remain; and then if something like this happens I also don't believe they would have to refund everyone and give them a 100% toward a future cruise, so ultimately they could at least quantify their losses.  And customers allowed to cancel would be happy.

[kywildcatfanone]

Youtube video uploaded this morning of Grand Princess

Grand Princess

[kywildcatfanone]

I really wasn't worried about this, but now I am wondering.  We are supposed to be on the April 18th Royal Princess out of LA.  Will see what Princess/Carnival do about it.

[MissP22]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Of course it is not known if passengers will be allowed to disembark then.

Somehow I'm thinking that the ship will remain in quarantine for cleaning and all the passengers will be tested & held until the results are confirmed.  😷

[MissP22]

5 hours ago, ShipFish said:

The only crew who could have moved between the two would be crew who left in ports prior to the quarantine on the Diamond; however in normal circumstances, with the exception of guest entertainers, it’s not that common for crew to be transferred between ships.

Even if the were transferred to the Grand, it seems unlikely that that they weren't tested for the virus beforehand. 

[fragilek]

2 hours ago, luckyinpa said:

 

but who will prevent you from getting it the day after you pass the test while you are at the store. so how often does everyone need to be tested. if you start thinking about this, theres almost no point to testing in a way.  unless you test everyone every day then successfully lock that person away for a while. 

 Eventually that is were we will end up - only testing for those needing hospital treatment to determined what treatment - ( viral v bacterial) and for death certs.  But for now we are still in WHO containment phase thus testing and isolation must be carried out also some countries are trying to use a delay strategy to get to summer, taking some pressures off the healthcare systems - Once declared pandemic and endemic in a country and delay process is over, the ship is in this will be treated differently. But by then some ships may be  temporary layed up due to this issue.

Edited March 5, 2020 by fragilek

[wrongwaywatson]

1 hour ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Been wading through the posts and there's a lot of valid points being made, and rightfully so a lot of concern expressed as well for the current situation and future sailings, etc...

 

That said, and this is not meant to be disrespectful to those dealing with the situation onboard Grand or previously on Diamond but it seems clear that like any large company, profits drive all or most decisions.  If there were people who were symptomatic of a 'flu like' illness on a prior cruise, why was that not more strictly investigated?  Of course this is speculation and if we all knew the future we'd be making decisions accordingly but it seems to  me like the industry in general is too hasty to maintain their profit margins with timely departures/arrivals, etc. as opposed to using some due diligence to ensure the health and well  being of its passengers especially in such a climate where everyone with a sniffle is subconsciously seen as being contagious of something...

 

Plenty of comments about cleaning, fogging, etc. and as one post accurately described the measures in place in NY transit it would appear as those tasked with the job are just going through the motions with a spray and wipe approach.  Surely if a disinfectant of any kind is to be deemed effective then there needs to be contact time with the surface greater than a second or two?  We've all seen the mad dash that is turnaround day with the crew running around like headless chickens trying to make ready the ship for the next cruise which leads me to think that the hasty approach is no doubt a contributing factor to the current issues, hence the reason that cruises which are affected by outbreaks of Noro-virus tend to carry over in some way or another.

 

Hopefully this gets resolved with minimal damage,  but if the current numbers are accurate with 11 pax & 10 crew showing 'flu like' symptoms i'm certain that number will increase exponentially due to the close confines and varied onset times of symptoms.  Guess the positive is that they're at least going to be berthed in SFO as opposed to Japan as/when they're permitted entry.

They can spend DAYS cleaning and disinfecting and it wouldn't matter.  If one of the B2B passengers or any of the crew members had been exposed THEY would bring it right back on the ship.  They can carry the virus before they show symptoms.  That's the problem and I don't know how you take care of that.

[rimmit]

16 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 Eventually that is were we will end up - only testing for those needing hospital treatment to determined what treatment - ( viral v bacterial) and for death certs.  But for now we are still in WHO containment phase thus testing and isolation must be carried out also some countries are trying to use a delay strategy to get to summer, taking some pressures off the healthcare systems - Once declared pandemic and endemic in a country and delay process is over, the ship is in this will be treated differently. But by then some ships may be  temporary layed up due to this issue.

I’ve been saying this for a while now.  I’d say they can’t be putting up the containment charade much longer unless we are gonna go full China on this which seems to be a viable strategy as it is working based on the WHO report on China.  That is the ONLY strategy for containment that has been successful thus far, and we have yet to see how it does once the economy starts revving back up.  You cannot just half*** containment and quarantine.  You have to go nuclear on this to stop the spread, based on all efforts thus far.

 

So in my mind we will eventually have one of two options.  We accept a Chinese “halt the economy” strategy for the world so we can extinguish this thing, or move on from containment, call it a pandemic just so life continues on and we start testing only those requiring hospitalization or in which knowing it is corona or not effects the treatment plan.  

Edited March 5, 2020 by rimmit

[gatour]

1 hour ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Been wading through the posts and there's a lot of valid points being made, and rightfully so a lot of concern expressed as well for the current situation and future sailings, etc...

 

That said, and this is not meant to be disrespectful to those dealing with the situation onboard Grand or previously on Diamond but it seems clear that like any large company, profits drive all or most decisions.  If there were people who were symptomatic of a 'flu like' illness on a prior cruise, why was that not more strictly investigated?  Of course this is speculation and if we all knew the future we'd be making decisions accordingly but it seems to  me like the industry in general is too hasty to maintain their profit margins with timely departures/arrivals, etc. as opposed to using some due diligence to ensure the health and well  being of its passengers especially in such a climate where everyone with a sniffle is subconsciously seen as being contagious of something...

 

 

 

If the person did not go to the infirmary how would Princess or any cruise line know to investigate further.  I was on a cruise (different line) where I came down with a nasty cold, probably one of the worse once I have had as adult, never went to the infirmary, and walked off the ship with it.  They had no way to know that I had a cold.

[Caymus88]

It has been discovered there are two strains of this virus.  Called L and S

one is much more aggressive than the other

And you can have both.

a big setback for a vaccine

I don’t know how to post links. 
The UK Telegraph

[put me on a ship]

1 hour ago, luckyinpa said:

any info on how many cases are in florida, the cruise capitol of the world. id assume a lot if cruise ships really are the carriers the media portrays them to be

We have two presumptive cases in the Tampa area. Very little testing so far though.

[wrp96]

1 hour ago, AlyssaJames said:

I don’t know how this strange “infected crew from Diamond ended up all the way over on Grand” notion keeps persisting, but I think people aren’t taking into account that there are other confirmed cases all over CA that have nothing to do with this. A worker at LAX has tested positive (let that one sink in). SF is a huge, international city with lots of travel ties with Asia. This is Occam’s Razor territory.

 

I think the most likely explanation for their bad luck is Princess has more ships operating in areas of potential exposure, with a slightly older clientele. For example, I don’t think NCL has a single ship out of California, do they?

I agree with you that it's more likely location and demographic than cruise line.  Longer cruises (Hawaii, Japan, etc) tend to attract an older demographic, no matter the cruise line.  This virus tends to affect an older demographic.  So just based on that a longer cruise is more likely to have an issue pop up related to coronavirus than a short Caribbean cruise with lots of families and kids.  

 

This virus also hides.  People can spread this virus while being asymptomatic for days.  We most likely won't know where the infected passenger(s) got it, but can't assume it came from the ship with how fast and the way this virus is spreading.

[fragilek]

2 minutes ago, Caymus88 said:

It has been discovered there are two strains of this virus.  Called L and S

one is much more aggressive than the other

And you can have both.

a big setback for a vaccine

I don’t know how to post links. 
The UK Telegraph

 There are also now discussions around the S (less aggressive form) having being around - may even have been pandemic- since September - and has mutated to the L form.  A lot of work ongoing to prove or disprove this.  But it is very interesting as I was on a costa cruise (it will be our one and only costa try) from Italy last Oct and we were conspicuous in that we were one of the few who did  not have a hellish cough. Even before the cruise on land we were dogging coughing folk all the time.

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, Farts said:

Some infectious dz docs question if these foggers can truly disinfect from covid 19 (or anything really). Drs have stated that it is more for PR in China that anything else really all that useful. So I question the usefulness of on the Grand princess.

 

I am not an ID dr (I specialize in something else). So I defer to my colleagues on questioning the true utility of those foggers.  Patient is these folders conclusive

Well, the chemical used, Virkon, and the method of use, fogging, is what the CDC recommends for sanitizing for noro, and I feel that they are some of the preeminent infectious disease epidemiologists in the world.  Not sure if you are referring to fogging outdoors, where environmental conditions would mitigate against proper concentration on surfaces.

 

As you say, I'm not an infectious disease doctor either, but from what I've learned, viruses like noro, which are non-enveloped, are harder to kill than enveloped ones like covid-19.

[trey420]

1 hour ago, rimmit said:

I’ve been saying this for a while now.  I’d say they can’t be putting up the containment charade much longer unless we are gonna go full China on this which seems to be a viable strategy as it is working based on the WHO report on China.  That is the ONLY strategy for containment that has been successful thus far, and we have yet to see how it does once the economy starts revving back up.  You cannot just half*** containment and quarantine.  You have to go nuclear on this to stop the spread, based on all efforts thus far.

 

So in my mind we will eventually have one of two options.  We accept a Chinese “halt the economy” strategy for the world so we can extinguish this thing, or move on from containment, call it a pandemic just so life continues on and we start testing only those requiring hospitalization or in which knowing it is corona or not effects the treatment plan.  

Lol! Man I'm just imagining them telling folks here in Houston your city is on lockdown.  Everyone stay home don't go outside.  You'd better bring the army.  They better be ready to fire on Americans too.  Absolutely zero chance.  Zero!  

 

We will just sit and watch.  Probably start banning large gatherings, or rather discouraging them.  But yeah lots of infections.  Americans are not gonna stay home they will still go out.  Panic, listen to conspiracy theories, and shunning groups of people.  It's the American way. 

[fourcruisin]

Um, am I the only one totally appalled by the lady on the video constantly coughing into her hand?  OMG, have we not learned anything about the spread of diseases?  And this is why COVID-19 is spreading so rapidly. 

[dchip]

3 minutes ago, fourcruisin said:

Um, am I the only one totally appalled by the lady on the video constantly coughing into her hand?  OMG, have we not learned anything about the spread of diseases?  And this is why COVID-19 is spreading so rapidly. 

No, you aren’t. I stopped watching once she coughed into her hand. By the way, we are scheduled for the 3-22 Grand cruise. It was a move over offer. Interested to see how this will be handled in case the cruise is cancelled. 
 

Denise

Edited March 5, 2020 by dchip

[scubacruiserx2]

The Grand Princess has turned back from Hawaii to California after a previous passenger died from Corona virus . Full story here :

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2020/03/04/a-second-princess-cruise-ship-is-affected-by-coronavirus-this-one-is-off-the-coast-of-california/#41ce29e83e2e

[WorkerBee74]

So this is misleading.  It wasn't "turned back from Hawaii".  It was technically turned back from going to Ensenada between Hawaii and San Francisco.  It had already completed its tour of the Hawaiian islands.  This is becoming very interesting for us as we have a cruise booked from Honolulu to Vancouver on April 10... will be something to watch to see if there is an outbreak on the Hawaiian islands now.  Sigh - this is all just awful.  

 

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/03/04/governor-calls-news-conference-discuss-latest-coronavirus-response/

Edited March 5, 2020 by WorkerBee74