Rethinking Muster Drills

[Aquahound]

3 minutes ago, Sue Do-Over said:

Oh, and those that would be delicious, in the event of a shipwreck on a deserted island.  (As a diabetic, my higher blood sugar levels might make me a tasty BBQ!)

 

 

Only with fava beans and a nice chianti.  😉

[Smokeyham]

15 minutes ago, Sue Do-Over said:

We have recommended some changes:

 

* Include in the life-vest video additional footage of pax boarding an actual lifeboat, and images of it completely full. .......

 

I agree......  There are videos taken on board the lifeboats that were leaving the Costa Concordia.   This won't be popular with cruise lines, but show a short segment of the real thing (blurring out the background with the Concordia in the background out of respect for those who died on board).     Don't make the whole presentation just a video.  Have a live officer emphasize that things really can happen.

Really like the idea that people then walk to the actual location where they will board their lifeboat.  Once we arrive, then scan our room keys.  Then, and only then, are we free to go.   

Edited August 20, 2020 by Smokeyham

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, Smokeyham said:

Really like the idea that people then walk to the actual location where they will board their lifeboat

 

There was one cruise on which I sailed--and I wish I could say for certain which one it was--(I think it was on Princess), but at the end of the Muster Drill a request was made for those interested to remain at our Muster Station (which was indoors) for us to experience what it would be like if we did go to our Disembarkation Station.  I did so as did several others.  I interpreted this request as an attempt on the part of the ship to have somewhat "experienced" guests prepared--just in case--such an evacuation needed to be done to try to "calm" those other guests who might be in a state of panic.  I thought it was an excellent idea then and I still do.  But, that one time was the only time I saw such an "extended drill" done.  

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, Sue Do-Over said:

Specifically, to remind pax that there is NO ROOM for personal belongings, no matter how expensive. 

 

During the Prinsendam I disaster, a guest informed a crew member that there was a briefcase in his stateroom that had his needed medications.  At some risk to that crew member and with the permission of the Bridge team, the crew member retrieved that briefcase while the ship was on fire.  The briefcase was returned to the Bridge,  Upon opening it, the Captain saw that all that it contained was a large amount of cash.  In disgust, he threw the briefcase overboard.  

[chengkp75]

It's a given in the industry, that a mariner will bring three things with him/her into the lifeboat:  the merchant mariner's credential, the passport, and the overtime sheet.

[Smokeyham]

3 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

... but at the end of the Muster Drill a request was made for those interested to remain at our Muster Station (which was indoors) for us to experience what it would be like if we did go to our Disembarkation Station.  ........

Great idea, but I would suggest making it mandatory for all passengers.  Based on many years in emergency services I would suggest that the people least likely to do this are the ones who most need to do this.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, Smokeyham said:

Great idea, but I would suggest making it mandatory for all passengers.  Based on many years in emergency services I would suggest that the people least likely to do this are the ones who most need to do this.

On our last muster drill, it was inside, but then the entire group was led to where the lifeboats were.

 

As for your statement about the one least likely to come voluntarily are the ones who need it the most, I once asked one of our son's teachers about the worth of the teacher conferences, and her answer was basically the same as yours. The parents she most needed to see were the ones who did not show up.

[Roger88]

17 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Only with fava beans and a nice chianti.  😉

I would rather take a sparkling one with me to celebrate the thing. I mean, I wish no one will ever got into a situation where he or she has to use a life boat but unless its some safe and the drill is  only to attract attention or to play out a titanic scene. I mean it might sounds silly, but in any case I  wish no one to ever get into a situation like that 

[MBP&O2/O]

Personally I am a great believer in ‘live casualty’ exercises, but the liability insurance would make it impossible.
I have run one but the ‘casualties’ were all family members of the boat owner which made it possible ... or at least the legalities were out of my remit [emoji1]
It would be interesting to see how those that complain of crowded musters would cope [emoji57] ... and probably more interesting to hear their comments if the drill was conducted with realism, and they were suitably encouraged .....

[Smokeyham]

56 minutes ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Personally I am a great believer in ‘live casualty’ exercises, but the liability insurance would make it impossible.
I have run one but the ‘casualties’ were all family members of the boat owner which made it possible ... or at least the legalities were out of my remit
It would be interesting to see how those that complain of crowded musters would cope ... and probably more interesting to hear their comments if the drill was conducted with realism, and they were suitably encouraged .....

One thing that would be interesting is if the cruise lines were to offer an activity on a shore, for those remaining on board, where they lowered a lifeboat and had people board from the promenade or other deck where they would board in a real emergency.   
If they did offer this it would be interesting to see how many decided to participate.

[d9704011]

8 minutes ago, Smokeyham said:

One thing that would be interesting is if the cruise lines were to offer an activity on a shore, for those remaining on board, where they lowered a lifeboat and had people board from the promenade or other deck where they would board in a real emergency.   
If they did offer this it would be interesting to see how many decided to participate.

$59.95 per person.  Includes box lunch and can of sort of fresh water.

[Smokeyham]

25 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

$59.95 per person.  Includes box lunch and can of sort of fresh water.

I love it!   Maybe they could simulate some rough seas so people can experience being sea sick in close quarters with other people?  😁

 

[Heidi13]

On 8/20/2020 at 12:00 PM, Sue Do-Over said:

We have recommended some changes:

 

* Include in the life-vest video additional footage of pax boarding an actual lifeboat, and images of it completely full. 

Specifically, to remind pax that there is NO ROOM for personal belongings, no matter how expensive.  That, in fact, your lap is occupied by the front of your bulky vest which is quite possibly pressed against the head/shoulders of the pax seated in front of you.  This is definitely the case in stadium-style lifeboats, which most of us haven't seen 'full'.

 

* Follow all indoor briefings with a walk from the muster station itself out to the actual lifeboats, so that you know the path you would follow, perhaps in the dark.  In times of panic, this could keep guests from finding themselves lost in an unfamiliar area (and reunite anyone who had to dash back to the cabin for meds or identification).  It needs to take only as long as the 'galley tour' -- a quick walk along the route.

 

* Scan in guests, no matter the muster station location.

 

DH and I have often amused ourselves by picking out fellow pax that would panic, would be good to have on hand, and whom we would throw overboard with their stuff.  Oh, and those that would be delicious, in the event of a shipwreck on a deserted island.  (As a diabetic, my higher blood sugar levels might make me a tasty BBQ!)

 

 

 

Loading a lifeboat to attain the capacity is not easy and is rarely practiced. A number of years ago, Transport Canada required one of the cruise ships to actually load the 150 man L/Boats with crew members wearing L/Jackets. On the first ship, it took a couple of hours and numerous attempts, until they achieve the required capacity. It would be very interesting to watch a short film of this exercise, as while I have run many timed evacuation trials for Marine Evacuation Systems with liferafts, I have never had to perform a trial with a lifeboat.

 

Multiple routes are available from the Assembly Stations to the Survival Craft, as an alternate may be required due to the emergency situation. Therefore, if moving pax to the Survival Craft during a drill, it is important to use more than 1 route. If the primary route was demonstrated during a drill and it was blocked during an emergency, some pax may not follow directions and revert to the actions from the drill. Regardless, still a great idea.  

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Personally I am a great believer in ‘live casualty’ exercises, but the liability insurance would make it impossible.
I have run one but the ‘casualties’ were all family members of the boat owner which made it possible ... or at least the legalities were out of my remit
It would be interesting to see how those that complain of crowded musters would cope ... and probably more interesting to hear their comments if the drill was conducted with realism, and they were suitably encouraged .....

 

We had to perform live evacuation trials every time we purchased a new Marine Evacuation System. I have managed trials with the DBC Twin Track (twice), Marin Ark Mk 1 and LSA. We hired the required number of volunteers, which had to be a cross section of the population. They were all instructed in what they were signing up for and all signed release forms.

 

Drills were performed with Flag State Inspectors present and were timed. Clock started once the Master announced "Abandon Ship". Once the system deployed, we had to sent the required number of people down the system, load them into rafts and tow all rafts 100 yds from the ship. All in less than 30 mins.

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

Loading a lifeboat to attain the capacity is not easy and is rarely practiced.

Echoing Andy's comments.  Lifeboats, their launching gear, and other lifesaving equipment is not intended to be used repeatedly, which is why cruise ships will have "training" life rafts for crew to drill and practice with, the amount of use makes it possibly unreliable in an actual emergency.  Plus, there is the liability aspect as others have stated, you are loading passengers into a boat that is suspended many feet above the water, and if anything fails during these "demonstrations", many people could get injured or killed.  Most newer cargo ships now have a single "free fall" lifeboat on the stern.  Statutory requirements were that the boats were to be released, to fall into the water, every 6 months.  Then the boat manufacturers found out that shipping companies were actually doing this, over a many year period with the same boat, and that these boats were experiencing cracking of the fiberglass hull.  The manufacturers stated that it was never their design that the boats would survive many repeated drops into the water, and that their preferred method of testing was a device that allowed the hook holding the boat onto the ship to release, but that would only allow the boat to slide a few inches before being restrained by a hydraulic cylinder, which would be used to pump the boat back up into position.

 

Some of the design considerations that make lowering and launching lifeboats simple and effective, also make them somewhat dangerous to use on a repetitive basis, resulting in accidents and injuries to those involved.  Industry best practice is never to lower a lifeboat with any more personnel onboard than minimally required to disconnect the boat and operate it for training.

 

In "stadium style" lifeboats, with one row of seating above and behind the other, not only are you pressed against those on either side of you, and in front/behind you, but the legs of the people on the upper tier of seating are meant to be draped over the shoulders of the people in the lower tier.

 

As Andy says, there will be multiple routes from a given muster station to a given lifeboat, depending on the situation at the time of the emergency.  Likewise, there will be backup muster station locations, in case the original one is not usable due to the emergency (fire in the area).  When taking passengers from the muster locations (if they are not at the boats on deck) to the boats, will be accomplished with a line of crew along the route to keep people moving and together on the right path.

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, ontheweb said:

As for your statement about the one least likely to come voluntarily are the ones who need it the most, I once asked one of our son's teachers about the worth of the teacher conferences, and her answer was basically the same as yours. The parents she most needed to see were the ones who did not show up.

 

As a retired educator, your son's teacher's comments are absolutely true!

[rkacruiser]

41 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

In "stadium style" lifeboats, with one row of seating above and behind the other, not only are you pressed against those on either side of you, and in front/behind you, but the legs of the people on the upper tier of seating are meant to be draped over the shoulders of the people in the lower tier.

 

 

I have not sailed on a ship that had this type of lifeboat.  I assumed that there were two solid decks within the boat.  What you described would make a traumatic event even more horrible for a passenger.  

 

Rarely has there been a short trip to/from shore on a ship's tender where I have considered what the situation would be like if each of those black "dots" were occupied with passengers wearing lifejackets.  (If I had any choice, at least on HAL lifeboats, I have already picked out the seats that I would attempt to get, if I was allowed to do so.)

[ontheweb]

55 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

As a retired educator, your son's teacher's comments are absolutely true!

I would like to add that I did not think she was saying we should not show up even though our son was running an A average in her math class at the time. Rather the people whose children needed help were the ones who she really needed to see, and unfortunately did not expect to see. There is of course a correlation between the grades of children and whether their parents care about their education.

[Sue Do-Over]

What a lively conversation!

 

As for the stadium style lifeboats, I think we saw them on a Princess ship, but I don't recall which one.  The casino crew was telling stories of their port-day training, where they had participate in loading and launching the training boat while docked at the private island. 

 

Remember the casino crew are subcontracted, so they don't have actual launch duties, but had to act as the 'guests' for the exercise.  It was HOT, they spent an hour jammed in (at about 50% capacity) and weren't permitted electronics.  (poor babies!)

 

But, it struck me that they are all young, slim/fit, sober and practiced ... a far cry from the mix of passengers that would ACTUALLY need to be stuffed into a lifeboat in case of emergency.

 

I nominated myself to be the person tossing frivolous junk over the rail.  Nope, no suitcase, no computer or camera bags... just medications, ID and a sweater allowed. 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I would like to add that I did not think she was saying we should not show up even though our son was running an A average in her math class at the time. Rather the people whose children needed help were the ones who she really needed to see, and unfortunately did not expect to see. There is of course a correlation between the grades of children and whether their parents care about their education.

 

The members of my Middle School Team always appreciated those parents/guardians that chose to appear for the conferences.  My Team instituted in my School the concept of student-led conferences with their parents and their teachers in attendance.  The students had to explain to us and produce their work that showed why they had met the expectations expected of them.  And, why they had not.  This concept led to an academic improvement for many of the students of our Team.  Even those students whose parents never made an appearance, those students had to present a portfolio to present.  It became obvious to even the student whose parents did not attend a conference that "something was amiss" if their portfolio was rather different to those of their peers.  

 

Did such a technique work for all of those students who were reluctant participants in their education?  Certainly not.  But, I believe that it made some difference for some students.  

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

It's a given in the industry, that a mariner will bring three things with him/her into the lifeboat:  the merchant mariner's credential, the passport, and the overtime sheet.

 

Which crew member is responsible for taking with them the ship's Logs?  

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Sue Do-Over said:

I nominated myself to be the person tossing frivolous junk over the rail.  Nope, no suitcase, no computer or camera bags... just medications, ID and a sweater allowed

 

Don't waste your time trying to throw stuff overboard in an emergency.  Add to your planned evacuation materials a head covering, shoes, some type of rain coat or outerwear coat, include a passport as part of your ID with some currency or credit card, if possible.  If you have a camera or a phone that can be used as such, the photos that you might be able to record will become a priceless historical record and may become significant in the investigations that will occur after the accident.   

[Heidi13]

13 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Which crew member is responsible for taking with them the ship's Logs?  

 

The Master will collect the Bridge Log, Official Log Book and any other relevant documentation that will aid his/her situation, such as the latest chart, if still using paper.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Sue Do-Over said:

Remember the casino crew are subcontracted, so they don't have actual launch duties, but had to act as the 'guests' for the exercise.  It was HOT, they spent an hour jammed in (at about 50% capacity) and weren't permitted electronics.  (poor babies!)

Just because crew are subcontracted, does not mean they don't have emergency duties.  Part of the concession agreement between the concessionaire (casino) and cruise line, is that the concessionaire's personnel will follow all duties assigned by the cruise line or the ship's officers, and they are listed on the "station bill" that lists every single crew member's duties and assigned locations for various emergencies and evacuations.  The only exceptions are the "guest entertainers" who are considered to be "passengers" for emergencies.

 

Having said that, the vast majority of the crew do not have duties that are involved with "launching" the boats, since at the time that passengers would be loading into the boats and the boats launched, the vast majority of the crew are still at their emergency stations, dealing with the emergency that required the evacuation.  Also, on the "station bill", there are typically a couple of hundred crew whose duties in an emergency are to muster at a location and "assist as directed".  These crew are sent wherever needed by the specific emergency (maybe to assist the special needs team getting disabled guests to muster, or to get a supply of water bottles to the passenger muster stations for guests who have been mustered for hours), and this is likely what those casino staff's duties were, so during boat training they are "assisting as directed" by getting into the boat.

 

5 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Rarely has there been a short trip to/from shore on a ship's tender where I have considered what the situation would be like if each of those black "dots" were occupied with passengers wearing lifejackets.  (If I had any choice, at least on HAL lifeboats, I have already picked out the seats that I would attempt to get, if I was allowed to do so.)

You don't get to pick and choose your seat in a lifeboat.  They are loaded from bow and stern to the middle (where the doors are), and evenly port and starboard, and you are directed to shuffle together as tight as possible as you are directed to the next "black dot" that is open.  Typically, given the size of most passengers, you would be sitting with one person leaning back against the backrest, and the next person leaning forward to allow for the width of shoulders and life jacket, and so on around the boat.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, Sue Do-Over said:

Remember the casino crew are subcontracted, so they don't have actual launch duties, but had to act as the 'guests' for the exercise.  

 

 

I agree with the Chief.

 

In addition to the Casino, a number of other departments are also sub-contractors. Our DIL was a Steiner (hairdresser) and had to pay room & board while aboard the ship. However she was still considered a crew member, with emergency duties and IPM (in port manning).

 

While she wasn't assigned to preparing/launching Survival Craft, she still had important duties in the event of an emergency