Rethinking Muster Drills

[GUT2407]

10 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

For a type 1 diabetic, insulin might fit into that category...EM

Yep, and some heart drugs there are also anti-coagulants that missing a dose can be serious stuff. To be frank if I had to abandon ship, or even evacuate my house, my medications go before anything, even just my pain meds, because in all honesty if I miss a dose many might not consider it life threatening, but I will be in so much pain I will be begging people to kill me. And it is likely that it will take more than just a day to get replacements.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, GUT2407 said:

And it is likely that it will take more than just a day to get replacements.

 

Some of the guests of Prinsendam I did experience such a situation.  

The paramedics of the USCG, the USAF, and the Canadian Coast Guard did a good job of anticipating the medicines that the passengers might require.  Yet, still, it wasn't  100% perfect and surely should not have been expected to be.  

[Sue Do-Over]

The important/critical documents and meds should reasonably fit in a quart-sized ziplock bag.  If you have more than that, maybe rethink priorities.  Anything larger is likely to be refused when you reach the lifeboat, but this size will tuck inside the life jacket.

 

A joking reference to robes and slippers was made, but consider the value of a $1 plastic rain poncho or even a large garbage bag to offer some protection from wind and rain without taking up valuable space.  I always have a couple ponchos in my small day-bag -- and was awfully glad to have them when seated on the open deck on a long tender ride, and on a ferry tour when the rain started suddenly.  Takes the space of a folded handkerchief, and worth the $1 every time.

 

Back to the idea of a smartphone video/briefing rather than the typical muster station... consider the new interactive panels that let you take a selfie, check menus, or review your stateroom account.   

 

** WHAT IF,  you were required to watch the video/demo on your personal device (maybe while standing in line at the pier?) and took a **QUIZ** once aboard.  Over the course of the several hours between the first pax aboard and actual departure, each person could stop by their assigned station and complete a quiz, registered with their key-card or folio number.  You'd have some cheaters taking the quiz for others, but no more than the number who goof off in muster drills anyway.

 

[Heidi13]

40 minutes ago, Sue Do-Over said:

** WHAT IF,  you were required to watch the video/demo on your personal device (maybe while standing in line at the pier?) and took a **QUIZ** once aboard.  Over the course of the several hours between the first pax aboard and actual departure, each person could stop by their assigned station and complete a quiz, registered with their key-card or folio number.  You'd have some cheaters taking the quiz for others, but no more than the number who goof off in muster drills anyway.

 

 

As we have posted a number of times, another key deliverable of the Pax Muster Drill is providing the crew an opportunity to muster and actually practice with managing the herd. Yes, you could expect the stairway guides to be in position throughout the entire boarding process, but on a TAR day, they just don't have any spare crew. MLC also limits hours of work to ensure crew receive sufficient time off, so you can't just add additional hours.

 

A couple of other considerations:

• I haven't had a smart phone/mobile since I retired and have never used a tablet. I'm certain I'm not the only person who refuses to use one.
• On our preferred cruise line, they have no queues at boarding, from arrival at the pier, we are usually on board within 12 to 15 minutes.
• A key deliverable for drills is consistency. On longer cruises, pax must re-attend drills every month, so the initial drill must be consistent with subsequent drills, which are normally held on sea days. To minimise disruption to pax services, the free for all again doesn't work, if crew stairway guides are present.

[MBP&O2/O]

 
As we have posted a number of times, another key deliverable of the Pax Muster Drill is providing the crew an opportunity to muster and actually practice with managing the herd. Yes, you could expect the stairway guides to be in position throughout the entire boarding process, but on a TAR day, they just don't have any spare crew. MLC also limits hours of work to ensure crew receive sufficient time off, so you can't just add additional hours.
 
A couple of other considerations:

• I haven't had a smart phone/mobile since I retired and have never used a tablet. I'm certain I'm not the only person who refuses to use one.
• On our preferred cruise line, they have no queues at boarding, from arrival at the pier, we are usually on board within 12 to 15 minutes.
• A key deliverable for drills is consistency. On longer cruises, pax must re-attend drills every month, so the initial drill must be consistent with subsequent drills, which are normally held on sea days. To minimise disruption to pax services, the free for all again doesn't work, if crew stairway guides are present.

I have a mobile phone ... quite clever but certainly not smart 🤬
I refuse to pay for direct internet access on any mobile device ... I have managed before and can do so again.
The only reason I got that was for ‘security’ codes from the bank.

I have an ancient tablet ..wifi only .. again I refuse to ‘comply’.

I will stick with the ‘courtesy’ angle ... attend the drills, shot up and listen.

Let’s face it ... 30 mins max??? That’s two hours shorter than trying to negotiate immigration etc. for a UK citizen trying to enter - or transit- the USA [emoji1]



Sent from my iPad using Forums

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

As we have posted a number of times, another key deliverable of the Pax Muster Drill is providing the crew an opportunity to muster and actually practice with managing the herd. Yes, you could expect the stairway guides to be in position throughout the entire boarding process, but on a TAR day, they just don't have any spare crew. MLC also limits hours of work to ensure crew receive sufficient time off, so you can't just add additional hours.

In addition to being the only time the crew can train with "the herd", it is the only time "the herd" can learn to operate with "the herd".  Passengers need the consistency, even those who are only onboard for one drill.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

In addition to being the only time the crew can train with "the herd", it is the only time "the herd" can learn to operate with "the herd".  Passengers need the consistency, even those who are only onboard for one drill.

Too many on here do not believe the crew needs training with the passengers. Too many on here seem to resent the bars will be closed for a short amount of time.

 

Thank you as always for being a voice of reason.

[chengkp75]

26 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Too many on here do not believe the crew needs training with the passengers. Too many on here seem to resent the bars will be closed for a short amount of time.

 

Thank you as always for being a voice of reason.

As I've said since I read about RCI's new muster "drill", is that "uninterrupted vacation" was stressed more times in the press release than "passenger safety", which to me, tells it all.

[nosapphire]

Am I reading the recent posts correctly?

People are willing to wear masks, have tests, be restricted on excursions, risk quarantine  - but are unhappy about losing 45 minutes free time to attend  a muster drill?🤣

[d9704011]

15 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Am I reading the recent posts correctly?

People are willing to wear masks, have tests, be restricted on excursions, risk quarantine  - but are unhappy about losing 45 minutes free time to attend  a muster drill?🤣

For this specific thread I believe you’ve read things incorrectly.  I do not think many of the posters have expressed a willingness to do all of those CV-19 related items; many just want to find a way to replace the traditional muster drill.

Edited September 6, 2020 by d9704011

[Aquahound]

19 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Am I reading the recent posts correctly?

People are willing to wear masks, have tests, be restricted on excursions, risk quarantine  - but are unhappy about losing 45 minutes free time to attend  a muster drill?🤣

 

Kinda funny how some people will fly several hours, packed shoulder to shoulder in a flying sardine can, but then cry COVID for a 15-20 minute muster drill.  😉

[nosapphire]

3 hours ago, d9704011 said:

For this specific thread I believe you’ve read things incorrectly.  I do not think many of the posters have expressed a willingness to do all of those CV-19 related items; many just want to find a way to replace the traditional muster drill.

 

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Kinda funny how some people will fly several hours, packed shoulder to shoulder in a flying sardine can, but then cry COVID for a 15-20 minute muster drill.  😉

 

I think it is a type of "forum doodling" - as nobody is able to cruise at the minute, nobody really knows what is going to happen/not happen, we are all coming up with various random thoughts. Keeps the forums active, anyway.

[sanger727]

18 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Too many on here do not believe the crew needs training with the passengers. Too many on here seem to resent the bars will be closed for a short amount of time.

 

Thank you as always for being a voice of reason.

just as an alternate viewpoint. There are times when the muster is so much more inconvenient than ‘the bars being closed’. And I already know the response on here is screw me and my once in a lifetime trip to Hawaii because the crew needs the training. But I went on a hawaii cruise that started with an overnight in Honolulu. Our plan was to check in early so that we could take advantage of the overnight and spend the rest of the day in port. Nope; muster was at 3 pm. So instead of having a full day to your Honolulu we got a few hours before we had to be back on board for muster. We had originally expected a muster the second day since in the past we have always experienced muster right before sail away.

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, sanger727 said:

So instead of having a full day to your Honolulu we got a few hours before we had to be back on board for muster. We had originally expected a muster the second day since in the past we have always experienced muster right before sail away.

This is probably the only legitimate complaint against the traditional muster drill that I have heard. 

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is probably the only legitimate complaint against the traditional muster drill that I have heard. 

 

I agree.  I've only been on 1 cruise that started with an overnight.  It was HAL Nieuw Amsterdam out of Venice.  I seem to recall the muster being held on day 2 just prior to sailing.  

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is probably the only legitimate complaint against the traditional muster drill that I have heard. 

 

Totally agree.

 

I've heard this on the Viking Boards a few times, as many of Viking's cruises start with an overnight. Some Masters have the drill on embarkation day, while others have it just before departure. We will find out next year, as our Bergen to London Midnight Sun starts with an overnight.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is probably the only legitimate complaint against the traditional muster drill that I have heard. 

Is it really required by the regulations on that night before? Could it wait until the day they actually sail? If so, it would seem to be a problem with a ready solution.

[Aquahound]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Is it really required by the regulations on that night before? Could it wait until the day they actually sail? If so, it would seem to be a problem with a ready solution.

 

SOLAS requires it to be held within 24 hours of actual sailing.  However, in the wake of Costa Concordia, I don't think any cruise lines wait until after sailing anymore.  The pre-departure muster is generally a "best practice" now.  

 

So to answer your question, no, it is not required to be held on day 1 of an overnight.  

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

SOLAS requires it to be held within 24 hours of actual sailing.  However, in the wake of Costa Concordia, I don't think any cruise lines wait until after sailing anymore.  The pre-departure muster is generally a "best practice" now.  

 

So to answer your question, no, it is not required to be held on day 1 of an overnight.  

Paul, Chapter III, Regulation 19 was amended with effect of 1 Jan 2015 to require the muster drill "prior to, or immediately upon departure".  Since no line wants to interfere with the "sail away", (as evidenced strongly by the wording of the new muster format), it is done before.  The wording of "prior to" does allow for it to be done a day prior, but that just isn't proper.

[sanger727]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The wording of "prior to" does allow for it to be done a day prior, but that just isn't proper.

glad to hear our expectations weren’t unreasonable. It was a bit bizarre. In hindsight they must have sent us the hours for check in but if you had been planning a flight in on embarkation day for an overnight, there’s not really a reason you would have had to have planned to be checked in and onboard by 3.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Paul, Chapter III, Regulation 19 was amended with effect of 1 Jan 2015 to require the muster drill "prior to, or immediately upon departure".  Since no line wants to interfere with the "sail away", (as evidenced strongly by the wording of the new muster format), it is done before.  The wording of "prior to" does allow for it to be done a day prior, but that just isn't proper.

 

Chief - With the current wording in SOLAS, when the ship overnights at embarkation, the timing of the drill becomes another case of the Master's discretion. Fortunately, I never had to deal with this issue when in command, but after reading about it on the Viking Board, have given it considerable thought, weighing the pros/cons.

 

Came up with many pros/cons for each option. Although it is a mute point, I would probably opt for the traditional embarkation day drill, rather than the traditional pre-departure. I gave significant weight to comments from Costa Concordia pax that mentioned they wished they had been given the opportunity to attend a drill.

 

Yes, being alongside is different from being at sea, but if any incident occurred the first night, the pax will at least have heard the GES and gone to the Assembly Station. The embarkation day drills, teaching the GES & Assembly Stations in port is also consistent with overnight port calls in the middle of a cruise. The disembarkation methods may be different in port, but the mustering is consistent.   

[c-boy]

say things are taking a big step into the future in regard to muster.  RCCL now has the e muster app. Exciting times.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, c-boy said:

say things are taking a big step into the future in regard to muster.  RCCL now has the e muster app. Exciting times.

Only exciting until the first real test of the "E muster".  As I've said, when RCI stresses that the new muster does not "interrupt your vacation" more times than they stress "passenger safety" in their press release, that tells me what the impetus is for this change.  I just hope they never have to truly put the "experience" gained in the "E muster" to the test in an emergency.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Only exciting until the first real test of the "E muster".  As I've said, when RCI stresses that the new muster does not "interrupt your vacation" more times than they stress "passenger safety" in their press release, that tells me what the impetus is for this change.  I just hope they never have to truly put the "experience" gained in the "E muster" to the test in an emergency.

 

I do agree with your thinking.  Technology is wonderful.  Until it does not work.

 

30 minutes that are "required" to emergency disembark a ship the size of the Symphony of the Seas.  The Commandant of the USCG at that time, if it ever happens, will have some questions to answer regarding that regulation when it proves not possible to do with guests that are not as cooperative and following instructions as those who participated in such a drill to "prove" that such a time frame for evacuation is possible to do.  

 

God forbid that such a "test" will happen!

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I do agree with your thinking.  Technology is wonderful.  Until it does not work.

 

30 minutes that are "required" to emergency disembark a ship the size of the Symphony of the Seas.  The Commandant of the USCG at that time, if it ever happens, will have some questions to answer regarding that regulation when it proves not possible to do with guests that are not as cooperative and following instructions as those who participated in such a drill to "prove" that such a time frame for evacuation is possible to do.  

 

God forbid that such a "test" will happen!

What most people don't understand when quoting the "30 minute" requirement is what that actually means.  That does not mean that from the time that the signal for passenger muster is given that within 30 minutes all passengers must be evacuated from the ship.  It does not mean that even if the passengers have been at their muster stations for hours, and the Captain decides to evacuate the passengers, that they will all be away in 30 minutes.  What the 30 minute requirement means is that each system used to evacuate passengers must be capable of being loaded to it's capacity and launched within 30 minutes.  So, this means that the boat is designed to be loaded, by passengers at the boat, lowered, and launched within 30 minutes.  So, if you have muster stations at the boats, all boats could be loaded at once, but there will be delays in lowering and launching, due to the boats being so close to each other, so typically you would have every other boat lowered and launched first, then the alternate every other boat, so those 2nd boats would likely not be loaded until the first set is mostly loaded, and that is when the second set of boats "30 minute" clock would start.  With muster stations away from the boats, the clock for each boat would start when the passengers for that boat are called from the muster station to board (a multiple boat indoor muster station would not empty all at once, but boat by boat in a controlled manner).

 

And, remember, the USCG does not have ultimate authority over foreign flag vessels.  The USCG can only ensure that the international conventions like SOLAS are being met, they do not make the "regulations" regarding the required life saving equipment, procedures, or training onboard a foreign flag vessel.  And the USCG, while their "Cruise Ship Center of Expertise" may have been consulted over the new format, it was not the USCG's authority to approve or disapprove the format, it was the IMO.