Rethinking Muster Drills

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

I can't say when it arrived; I boarded Serenity in mid-January.  I remember it distinctly because of the stiff acting out the parts about gathering clothes, eyeglasses, and medications before leaving the cabin. 

We got off  Serenity on the 22nd 

never saw anything like that on Muster drills on the TV 

We had 2  drills on the B2B

 So must be something new  then

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Sorry, but if a muster drill needs to be changed in order to create social distancing, the cruise itself probably shouldn't be running at all.  Sacrificing safety in the name of safety doesn't seem to make much sense.  

 

55 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

Watching films, etc are only acceptable as an added training aid, in addition to the Muster Drill. One of the key objectives of the Muster Drill is to condition people that on hearing the General Emergency Signal they go to their Muster Station.

 

I can only comment about the marine industry, but our drills were as realistic as possible, as it is proven that crew and pax will respond in a real emergency similar to how they drill. Hence the need for pax to hear the GES and go to a Muster Station, especially as in a real emergency the ship could be listing, with no lights except the Emergency Lights and IMO way-finding signage.

 

If physical distancing is an issue during the Muster Drill, then I can think of numerous other times it will also be an issue, so to ensure safety and regulatory compliance, cruises should not go.

Thanks, guys, I'm getting tired of explaining this.

[clo]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Thanks, guys, I'm getting tired of explaining this.

So what about my #13 above? Does the fact that Hurtigruten is a Norwegian based company or that the ship had only 100 pax give a different rule?

[Aquahound]

6 hours ago, clo said:

When we sailed on Hurtigruten last year, we had videos in a couple of lounges with a staff member there. At the end they scanned our cards and, as mentioned above, if everyone didn't scan they called for them on the PA. But that's a Norwegian line and the ship only had 100 pax. 

 

3 minutes ago, clo said:

So what about my #13 above? Does the fact that Hurtigruten is a Norwegian based company or that the ship had only 100 pax give a different rule?

 

Were those lounges your muster stations? 

[clo]

Just now, Aquahound said:

 

 

Were those lounges your muster stations? 

Not at all. We gathered wherever we chose, on two different levels, watched a video, got our cards scanned and that was that. 

[Aquahound]

1 minute ago, clo said:

Not at all. We gathered wherever we chose, on two different levels, watched a video, got our cards scanned and that was that. 

 

So where were you supposed to go in the event of an emergency? 

[clo]

1 minute ago, Aquahound said:

 

So where were you supposed to go in the event of an emergency? 

I'll be honest and say I no longer remember. But I'm betting I'd remember if I were unsure about it at the time. I wonder if there was a diagram in the cabin. You know like hotels have for emergency exits? Think about how small a 100 pax ship is.

 

[rkacruiser]

I am finishing reading a book written by one of the 2nd Officers about the Prinsendam tragedy in 1980.  One of the determinations made by the Netherlands Maritime Court investigating this tragedy was that the Muster Drill held by the ship after departure from Vancouver was an important contributor to the fact that all guests and crew were evacuated without any loss of life or significant injury.  

 

My opinion:  actually knowing where to go and doing so and how to get there from one's stateroom cannot be replicated by a video.  If your ship looses electrical power, the emergency generator fails, its totally dark in the middle of the night, you cannot see the evacuation route on the back of your stateroom door, in what kind of situation will one find oneself?  

[cruizergal70]

7 hours ago, mammajamma2013 said:

Granted I've only sailed Carnival once, but that drill on the Vista was in one of the lounges. Maybe on select Carnival ships?

It was inside on the Carnival Horizon.

[WESTEAST]

5 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

My opinion:  actually knowing where to go and doing so and how to get there from one's stateroom cannot be replicated by a video.  If your ship looses electrical power, the emergency generator fails, its totally dark in the middle of the night, you cannot see the evacuation route on the back of your stateroom door, in what kind of situation will one find oneself?  

I agree with the above statement and if physical distancing of 2 metres cannot be achieved for drill, simply wear a mask (this is what we are doing in most provinces in Canada now). Last year on Marina, we went to Grand Dining Room and this Jan-Feb, on Regatta also went to Grand Dining Room for our drills; on renovated Regatta, they also had safety video online as part of their new smart TVs but, don't recall the details (point in case that people don't remember videos). Perhaps other changes could be made as recall a time when you had to bring/wear your life jackets for drill e.g., two drills to accommodate amount of passengers distancing etc. 

[Aquahound]

25 minutes ago, clo said:

I'll be honest and say I no longer remember. But I'm betting I'd remember if I were unsure about it at the time. I wonder if there was a diagram in the cabin. You know like hotels have for emergency exits? Think about how small a 100 pax ship is.

 

 

I was thinking you probably just don't remember.  SOLAS regulation 111/19 requires reporting to your lifeboat station for the safety drill.  If you were required to report to a lounge (any lounge) for the drill, then that was the designated station(s) where you were supposed to go in an emergency.  You would then be escorted to the boats. 

 

That's also how it works with all the larger lines with indoor muster. 

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, Aquahound said:

 

I was thinking you probably just don't remember.  SOLAS regulation 111/19 requires reporting to your lifeboat station for the safety drill.  If you were required to report to a lounge (any lounge) for the drill, then that was the designated station(s) where you were supposed to go in an emergency.  You would then be escorted to the boats. 

 

That's also how it works with all the larger lines with indoor muster. 

 

I have experienced an indoor lounge muster on Nieuw Statendam, Royal Princess, and MSC Meraviglia.  All 3 were inadequate in comparison to an actual at your lifeboat station as has been done on some HAL ships.  Royal Princess:  my lounge area was small enough that it was easier to pay attention.  A World Stage Mustering Station on Nieuw Statendam was marginally better than what I experienced at the Mustering Station in the Theater of MSC Meraviglia.  Particularly on Meraviglia, if there was smoke present, low/little lighting, and relatively few crew members to "herd this crew of cats" to the lifeboats, I would not have known where to go on my own.  As a newbie on such a ship, God forbid that I got lost from the crowd being herded to a lifeboat embarkation station.  

[clo]

15 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

  You would then be escorted to the boats. 

Oh sorry. I thought you were talking about how we were to get to the boats themselves. What you describe is likely what we did on their larger ship for our Antarctica trip.  (I'm pretty old, ya know 🙂 )

[lenquixote66]

6 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I have experienced an indoor lounge muster on Nieuw Statendam, Royal Princess, and MSC Meraviglia.  All 3 were inadequate in comparison to an actual at your lifeboat station as has been done on some HAL ships.  Royal Princess:  my lounge area was small enough that it was easier to pay attention.  A World Stage Mustering Station on Nieuw Statendam was marginally better than what I experienced at the Mustering Station in the Theater of MSC Meraviglia.  Particularly on Meraviglia, if there was smoke present, low/little lighting, and relatively few crew members to "herd this crew of cats" to the lifeboats, I would not have known where to go on my own.  As a newbie on such a ship, God forbid that I got lost from the crowd being herded to a lifeboat embarkation station.  

Due to disability I cannot do an outdoor muster drill.I always do an indoor one.

[cruisemom42]

Given the nature of most of Hurtigruten's trips, I certainly can understand why they would want passengers to muster inside. If you are in an uncertain situation -- and let us not forget that often passengers are asked to muster as a precaution, not just when abandoning the ship is imminent -- you would not want passengers in Antarctica or northern Norway to muster outside for upwards of several hours while awaiting a decision.

 

I saw a documentary about the expeditionary ship that sank near Antarctica a few years ago, and passengers were asked to muster inside in that case.

 

Another reason for not gathering at the actual lifeboat stations is that one or more lifeboats may not be usable due to ship conditions. 

 

If the crew is trained as they should be, they will be on hand to guide passengers to their actual lifeboat. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, clo said:

I'll be honest and say I no longer remember. But I'm betting I'd remember if I were unsure about it at the time. I wonder if there was a diagram in the cabin. You know like hotels have for emergency exits? Think about how small a 100 pax ship is.

 

 

I believe that the Hurtigruten ships are considered ferry/cruise ships, in that one of their main functions is as passenger ferries up and down the Norwegian coast.  As a ferry, and I believe they are considered to be "near coastal voyages", and therefore do not require a passenger muster drill.

[chengkp75]

34 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I have experienced an indoor lounge muster on Nieuw Statendam, Royal Princess, and MSC Meraviglia.  All 3 were inadequate in comparison to an actual at your lifeboat station as has been done on some HAL ships.  Royal Princess:  my lounge area was small enough that it was easier to pay attention.  A World Stage Mustering Station on Nieuw Statendam was marginally better than what I experienced at the Mustering Station in the Theater of MSC Meraviglia.  Particularly on Meraviglia, if there was smoke present, low/little lighting, and relatively few crew members to "herd this crew of cats" to the lifeboats, I would not have known where to go on my own.  As a newbie on such a ship, God forbid that I got lost from the crowd being herded to a lifeboat embarkation station.  

While it should have been done during drill, during an emergency, the lighting in the theater would be raised.  If and when it becomes time to escort passengers to the boats, those crew who have been assigned to search passenger cabins and public spaces to "clear" them of passengers, as well as the "deck" and "zone" leaders of these teams, and the stairwell guides will "collapse" as the upper decks are cleared down to the embarkation or muster station decks, and will be available to provide escort and direction from the muster station to the boats.  Again, in reality, listening to announcements in the drill is not all that important, what is important is:  show up and shut up.

[clo]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I believe that the Hurtigruten ships are considered ferry/cruise ships, in that one of their main functions is as passenger ferries up and down the Norwegian coast.  As a ferry, and I believe they are considered to be "near coastal voyages", and therefore do not require a passenger muster drill.

But they did require that we all participate in one of them and be 'checked off.' Perhaps since they do far more now than Norwegian coast they've incorporated the procedure into all the ships. The little ship we were on ONLY does the coastal voyage. It was very special to us and others from England, Germany, etc. who do the trip every year.

[BlueRiband]

10 hours ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

To me the answer is simple.  
1) you make a muster drill 5 min video that people have to watch before they get to the cruise ship (cruise line can give an access code that they can use to verify people watched it).  You don’t watch it, you don’t get on the ship

2) when you get on the ship and before sailing, you need to go to your assigned muster station and scan your sail and sign card at a card reader at the station. 

3) the ship doesn’t sail until everyone scans their card at the muster station

 

Its that simple.  It just takes a little innovation to achieve the same means (People have sat through the safety briefing and know where to go in case of emergency)
 

Other ideas ?

Keep as is.  I'm all for everyone knowing exactly where to go and what to do before there is a real emergency.  Google Costa Concordia. 

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, clo said:

So what about my #13 above? Does the fact that Hurtigruten is a Norwegian based company or that the ship had only 100 pax give a different rule?

 

Clo - While I don't know the content of the Norwegian Act & Regulations for their domestic shipping, my best guess is because it was a ferry. On all ferries I have worked and as a pax, Muster Drills were not required.

 

On our ferries, as we operate short Home Trade or Near Coastal voyages, we only had to provide videos and/or P/A announcements at the start of the voyage. Same process on Washington State Ferries and although it is 30+ years since I sailed on Channel Ferries, they also didn't hold Muster Drills.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

On all ferries I have worked and as a pax, Muster Drills were not required.

Not worth over-working this side subject, but we did have to have our cards scanned.

[Aquahound]

4 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

On our ferries, as we operate short Home Trade or Near Coastal voyages, we only had to provide videos and/or P/A announcements at the start of the voyage. Same process on Washington State Ferries and although it is 30+ years since I sailed on Channel Ferries, they also didn't hold Muster Drills.

 

True.  I ride the WSFs almost every day and all they give is a ship wide PA announcement, along with a video on a few onboard TVs.  But then again, the longest WSF ride is only an hour.   

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Sorry, but if a muster drill needs to be changed in order to create social distancing, the cruise itself probably shouldn't be running at all.  Sacrificing safety in the name of safety doesn't seem to make much sense.  

An interesting point:  how much needs to be changed,  and with all the necessary changes, what will the cruise be like?

 

I cannot help wondering if everybody here who has stated that they will be on the first cruise they can book has really thought about things.

[clo]

5 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

True.  I ride the WSFs almost every day and all they give is a ship wide PA announcement, along with a video on a few onboard TVs.  But then again, the longest WSF ride is only an hour.   

We'll be heading up there soon. In our motorhome so still able to social distance. We always go to Whidbey for mussels 🙂 and this time we're thinking about coming in from a different direction and take the ferry from Port Townsend to Whidbey. OT - sorry.

[Heidi13]

1 minute ago, Aquahound said:

 

True.  I ride the WSFs almost every day and all they give is a ship wide PA announcement, along with a video on a few onboard TVs.  But then again, the longest WSF ride is only an hour.   

 

The ships I'm not certain about are Alaska State's Columbia & Matinuska as they do the trips up to Alaska from Bellingham. I did a few years on our North Coast aboard the Queen of the North and being Near Coastal/HTII we didn't require Muster Drills, only the announcements.