CDC makes more common sense changes to cruising rules and regulations?

[capriccio]

From an article in the Washington Post this evening:  CDC lifts some mask rules for vaccinated cruise passengers (https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/05/12/cruise-mask-rules-covid-cdc/) in its operations manual.

 

Highlights:

 

• Cruise passengers who are fully vaccinated will be allowed to take their masks off outdoors as long as they aren’t in crowds at the cruise lines discretion.
• Passengers don’t have to wear masks in their own cabins and can temporarily remove them “for brief periods of time while eating or drinking.”
• Cruise lines can also allow fully vaccinated passengers to explore independently when they stop at ports as long as they wear masks indoors. Operators should “consider prohibiting” such activity for passengers and crew who are not fully vaccinated.

 

This is only the beginning of changes according to Spokeswoman Caitlin Shockey.   The revision was made to “align with the CDC’s current guidance for fully vaccinated people.” More updates are coming soon, she added.

[donaldsc]

1 hour ago, capriccio said:

From an article in the Washington Post this evening:  CDC lifts some mask rules for vaccinated cruise passengers (https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/05/12/cruise-mask-rules-covid-cdc/) in its operations manual.

 

Highlights:

 

• Cruise passengers who are fully vaccinated will be allowed to take their masks off outdoors as long as they aren’t in crowds at the cruise lines discretion.
• Passengers don’t have to wear masks in their own cabins and can temporarily remove them “for brief periods of time while eating or drinking.”
• Cruise lines can also allow fully vaccinated passengers to explore independently when they stop at ports as long as they wear masks indoors. Operators should “consider prohibiting” such activity for passengers and crew who are not fully vaccinated.

 

This is only the beginning of changes according to Spokeswoman Caitlin Shockey.   The revision was made to “align with the CDC’s current guidance for fully vaccinated people.” More updates are coming soon, she added.

 

Of course this depends upon the rules of the place(s) that you are cruising to.

 

DON

[CruiserBruce]

Already being discussed in several threads...

[BoozinCroozin]

Not exactly common sense either. They have 2 sets of rules in place and no information on how they can identify which group passengers are in without making medical information identifiable. It is 100% reasonable to assume that someone wearing a mask on the pool deck is not vaccinated. At least in US waters that information is protected by HIPAA. 

 

As much as I am against it, get cruising going with 100% vaccinated cruises only and then start to work it down to everyone.

[Joebucks]

The only good thing in there is the ability to explore independently. Baby steps I guess.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Not exactly common sense either. They have 2 sets of rules in place and no information on how they can identify which group passengers are in without making medical information identifiable. It is 100% reasonable to assume that someone wearing a mask on the pool deck is not vaccinated. At least in US waters that information is protected by HIPAA. 

 

As much as I am against it, get cruising going with 100% vaccinated cruises only and then start to work it down to everyone.

If you are asked by a cruise line if you are vaccinated, that is not a HIPPA violation...if you answer, you are doing so voluntarily. If the cruise line asked your doctor, you would have to consent for that info to be released.

[BoozinCroozin]

9 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

If you are asked by a cruise line if you are vaccinated, that is not a HIPPA violation...if you answer, you are doing so voluntarily. If the cruise line asked your doctor, you would have to consent for that info to be released.

Currently as it is written, if YOU are not vaccinated, you must wear a mask outdoors on a cruise ship. This is not asking anyone, this is telling. If you see people wearing masks outdoors on the cruise ship, it is telling everyone they are not vaccinated. That is a violation of HIPAA. If you can reasonably know someone's medical information, then it is protected. Having a mask on while on the Lido deck for sail away while 2,000 others are not pretty much guarantees you are not vaccinated. If you are not wearing it, you are in violation of the CDC (even though I disagree with it). 

[jtwind]

Nothing is "common sense" when referring to the first world wide pandemic in our lifetime. All anyone can do is make plans and rules based on our current data, and modify things as our understanding of the thing improves.

[evandbob]

55 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Currently as it is written, if YOU are not vaccinated, you must wear a mask outdoors on a cruise ship. This is not asking anyone, this is telling. If you see people wearing masks outdoors on the cruise ship, it is telling everyone they are not vaccinated. That is a violation of HIPAA. If you can reasonably know someone's medical information, then it is protected. Having a mask on while on the Lido deck for sail away while 2,000 others are not pretty much guarantees you are not vaccinated. If you are not wearing it, you are in violation of the CDC (even though I disagree with it). 

it's a foolish and illogical assumption.to state that masked cruisers on an outside pool deck are unvaxxed.  There will be some fully vaxxed like myself who choose to continue to wear a mask in certain outdoor scenarios.

 

The wearing or discarding of a mask, whether mandated or not by a private business, is not a HIPAA violation.

[c-boy]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

The only good thing in there is the ability to explore independently. Baby steps I guess.

kind of like learn as you go 

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, capriccio said:

From an article in the Washington Post this evening:  CDC lifts some mask rules for vaccinated cruise passengers (https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/05/12/cruise-mask-rules-covid-cdc/) in its operations manual.

 

Highlights:

 

• Cruise passengers who are fully vaccinated will be allowed to take their masks off outdoors as long as they aren’t in crowds at the cruise lines discretion.
• Passengers don’t have to wear masks in their own cabins and can temporarily remove them “for brief periods of time while eating or drinking.”
• Cruise lines can also allow fully vaccinated passengers to explore independently when they stop at ports as long as they wear masks indoors. Operators should “consider prohibiting” such activity for passengers and crew who are not fully vaccinated.

 

This is only the beginning of changes according to Spokeswoman Caitlin Shockey.   The revision was made to “align with the CDC’s current guidance for fully vaccinated people.” More updates are coming soon, she added.

 

If cruise lines require vaccinations of everyone, then perhaps the first bullet is not needed.   If everyone is fully vaccinated, then why the need for masks anywhere on board.   

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Currently as it is written, if YOU are not vaccinated, you must wear a mask outdoors on a cruise ship. This is not asking anyone, this is telling. If you see people wearing masks outdoors on the cruise ship, it is telling everyone they are not vaccinated. That is a violation of HIPAA. If you can reasonably know someone's medical information, then it is protected. Having a mask on while on the Lido deck for sail away while 2,000 others are not pretty much guarantees you are not vaccinated. If you are not wearing it, you are in violation of the CDC (even though I disagree with it). 

No, you can still wear a mask if vaccinated.

 

I remember when HIPAA first went into effect, when I went to my dentist's office and you signed in the names signed in before yours were crossed off (even though you could see who was sitting in the waiting room). That did not last long.

[SelectSys]

5 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

information on how they can identify which group passengers are in without making medical information identifiable.

What's interesting is that the new smart wristbands that cruise lines  make it super easy to detect those vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers on board.

 

3 hours ago, jtwind said:

Nothing is "common sense" when referring to the first world wide pandemic in our lifetime. All anyone can do is make plans and rules based on our current data, and modify things as our understanding of the thing improves.

 The rate of modification of CDC rules seems especially high at this particular time.  Is it data or pushback from the lines and political pressure that are making changes happen so rapidly?

 

2 hours ago, evandbob said:

There will be some fully vaxxed like myself who choose to continue to wear a mask in certain outdoor scenarios

Would you wear a mask on the pool deck of a cruise ship?  Is that an "outdoor scenario"  worthy of "masking up?"

 

47 minutes ago, ldubs said:

If everyone is fully vaccinated, then why the need for masks anywhere on board.   

That's a good question.  Is it because there is a non zero probability that an asymptomatic carrier of the COVID might infect other passengers?  This infected person can still pass the disease on to another vaccinated person.  Remember, a vaccinated person can get sick as the probability of infection after vaccination remains above zero as the vaccines are not perfect.

 

Of course society (aka decision makers at the CDC for those of us in the US) still needs to decide how much risk we are willing to accept in creating rules.  If the probabilities remain low relating to wide spread infections, maybe you don't need to "mask up" all the time - even for cruises departing the US.  Of course some will simply search for other locations that are less restrictive if the local environment is too restrictive.  We have had a few discussions of this behavior on CC of late.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by SelectSys

[Top_of_the_Cube]

HIPAA only covers those in the health care industry and businesses that might be contracted by someone in the health care industry.

 

Any other person or non-health care related company can proclaim your personal medical conditions across all social media, and it would not violate HIPAA.  This might violate other privacy laws, but not HIPAA.

 

I do think that the CDC is slowly getting to some reasonable standards, which is good news.  Many had previously commented that the CDC would never "give in" this far, this soon, so we at least have that.

 

Thanks, OP, for sharing the article.

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, evandbob said:

it's a foolish and illogical assumption.to state that masked cruisers on an outside pool deck are unvaxxed.  There will be some fully vaxxed like myself who choose to continue to wear a mask in certain outdoor scenarios.

 

You are right.  Being masked at an outside pool might not mean the person is unvaxxed.  It could also mean the person is vaxxed and irrational.

Even the New York Times is reporting that the CDC has massively overstated the outdoor transmission risk.

[ldubs]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:41 AM, ldubs said:

 

If cruise lines require vaccinations of everyone, then perhaps the first bullet is not needed.   If everyone is fully vaccinated, then why the need for masks anywhere on board.   

 

On 5/13/2021 at 9:28 AM, SelectSys said:

 

That's a good question.  Is it because there is a non zero probability that an asymptomatic carrier of the COVID might infect other passengers?  This infected person can still pass the disease on to another vaccinated person.  Remember, a vaccinated person can get sick as the probability of infection after vaccination remains above zero as the vaccines are not perfect.

 

Of course society (aka decision makers at the CDC for those of us in the US) still needs to decide how much risk we are willing to accept in creating rules.  If the probabilities remain low relating to wide spread infections, maybe you don't need to "mask up" all the time - even for cruises departing the US.  Of course some will simply search for other locations that are less restrictive if the local environment is too restrictive.  We have had a few discussions of this behavior on CC of late.

 

 

We know the vaccines are not 100% effective.  If the goal is zero risk, then we are all doomed!  I am hoping we have a shift here in America where folks who are feeling ill will wear a mask as a courtesy to others -- as is done already in some other countries.  

[SelectSys]

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

 If the goal is zero risk, then we are all doomed!

Amen to that!

 

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

I am hoping we have a shift here in America where folks who are feeling ill will wear a mask as a courtesy to others

Agreed!  I haven't had a cold since before COVID.  I was usually good for at least one or two per year in pre-COVID times

[navybankerteacher]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:41 AM, ldubs said:

 

If cruise lines require vaccinations of everyone, then perhaps the first bullet is not needed.   If everyone is fully vaccinated, then why the need for masks anywhere on board.   

Without some effective vaccination passport, it must be assumed that there will be unvaccinated passengers on board - putting everyone’s port calls or even continued itinerary at risk.   Bear in mind that roughly half the US population remains unvaccinated —- and it is obvious from posts on CC that a fair number of cruisers do not plan to get vaccinated.    The mask requirement is not so much to protect the vaccinated passengers, but the unvaccinated from the infection consequences of their attitudes —- and, ultimately, everyone from the cruise disruption consequences.

 

If the world wide contagion is sufficiently controlled so that ports will not bar ships carrying infected passengers, these concerns will not exist —- are we there yet?

[evandbob]

On 5/13/2021 at 4:45 PM, Toofarfromthesea said:

You are right.  Being masked at an outside pool might not mean the person is unvaxxed.  It could also mean the person is vaxxed and irrational.

Even the New York Times is reporting that the CDC has massively overstated the outdoor transmission risk.

Thanks for agreeing with part of my post.  However, I don't see the need to disagree judgmentally by calling me irrational for not wanting to catch the flu from some snotty kids/adults on the pool deck .  Disagree sure, but not with snark, K?

Edited May 16, 2021 by evandbob

[cruisemom42]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:16 AM, BoozinCroozin said:

If you see people wearing masks outdoors on the cruise ship, it is telling everyone they are not vaccinated. That is a violation of HIPAA.

 

Methinks you need to go back and review what HIPAA actually mandates.

[navybankerteacher]

25 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Methinks you need to go back and review what HIPAA actually mandates.

For a start.

[Toofarfromthesea]

4 hours ago, evandbob said:

Thanks for agreeing with part of my post.  However, I don't see the need to disagree judgmentally by calling me irrational for not wanting to catch the flu from some snotty kids/adults on the pool deck .  Disagree sure, but not with snark, K?

Where were you when I was being gratuitously insulted and called names all over the place?

Did you mask up poolside to avoid the flu, pre-pandemic?  If not, your flu excuse is just a pretext.  And given that we now know the risk of outdoor transmission was at least one and probably two orders of magnitude, pre-vaccine, lower than CDC had claimed, and that you said you've been vaccinated - which lowers a tiny risk to virtually nothing - there is no rational basis for wearing a mask poolside.

[LynnTTT]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:19 AM, jtwind said:

Nothing is "common sense" when referring to the first world wide pandemic in our lifetime. All anyone can do is make plans and rules based on our current data, and modify things as our understanding of the thing improves.

Agree. I think people have conveniently forgotton the uncertainty at the beginning of Covid and somehow think there is a known pattern. Forget it. For all we know a new variation will take hold and we'll all need new vaccines. 

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Without some effective vaccination passport, it must be assumed that there will be unvaccinated passengers on board - putting everyone’s port calls or even continued itinerary at risk.   Bear in mind that roughly half the US population remains unvaccinated —- and it is obvious from posts on CC that a fair number of cruisers do not plan to get vaccinated.    The mask requirement is not so much to protect the vaccinated passengers, but the unvaccinated from the infection consequences of their attitudes —- and, ultimately, everyone from the cruise disruption consequences.

 

If the world wide contagion is sufficiently controlled so that ports will not bar ships carrying infected passengers, these concerns will not exist —- are we there yet?

 

". . . a fair number of cruisers do not plan to get vaccinated."

 

It is my hope that these folk you refer to are not cruisers until the pandemic is a thing of the past.   I personally do not have any issue with requiring vaccines or  proof-of-vaccine requirements.  

 

". . .are we there yet?"

 

I don't think so.