US Citizen - keep an eye on Schengen/EU potential of denying entry due to COVID failuresI

[iancal]

Cannot say I blame them. Makes a lot of sense to me.   Besides, it is their respective countries so they get to decide. 

 

Think of the converse of this.  I have no doubt that the US is also feeling the decline in tourism.   We won't even consider a trip to the US at the moment.  We are hoping to book an international flight in the fall and we will take care to ensure that the routing does not involve a change of planes in any US airport.

Edited June 27, 2020 by iancal

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I just thought to add since you found the numbers interesting perhaps the stats from France will put things in perspective. In 2018 France had 89.4 million visitors that is more than double the American visitors who visit all of Europe. United States citizens only made up 8 million of those vistors.

 

Thx for an interesting discussion.   My perspective on the scale of tourism was so far off I'm embarrassed to say.   Haha.  

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

 

I was in France in summer 2003 for work.

 

France was REELING from the lack of tourism.  It is a huge part of their economy.

 

40 million people, spending how much per person?  $1000 per person means $40 billion in lost revenue.

 

Well, I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm OK if a big chunk of that stays at home for the time being.   

[iancal]

Read an article today about tourism where we live.

 

According to the tourism council foreign visitors make up five percent of the total numbers.

 

But...they account for 24 percent of the revenue.

[SelectSys]

17 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Out of curiosity I looked up some numbers. There was one statistic that said about 30 - 40 million Americans visit Europe per year. Which sounds like a lot but spread around Europe and it is not a lot of people per country. Focusing on Greece about 4.5 million Germans visited last year whereas Americans accounted for just under a million visitors.

 

In aggregate that is a large impact across what is a largely an interconnected economy.  Of course most of the Greek tourism is from Northern Europe as it is a quick flight. Missing 30-40 million visitors will make a difference.  Remember that unlike Australia which largely pays its bill via mining, agriculture, LNG gas sales and other forms of resources exploration, large parts of Europe really depend much more heavily on tourism to keep things going.  All of the southern countries are going to be hurting a lot.  The Germans are going to be spending a lot of money to bail everyone else out I would think.  

 

17 hours ago, clo said:

Good point. Although not CA we're only a 'few' miles away. I bet hundreds of people run, bike, walk and more past our house every day. Including those jogging strollers. 

 

Also since I'm a morning person I can't dream of going to a gym in the late afternoon. 🙂 

 

Don't think that people in CA are all that fit and free of disease.  Go to Fresno, Bakersfield, San Bernardino or any number of other cities/areas to see what the majority (population wise) CA residents really look like.  Fitness - like so many things - is really a function of wealth and CA has the largest percentage of poor people in the US.  Note that CA is getting increasingly poor as more people leave the state for places like Nevada and Texas due to taxes.

 

15 hours ago, clo said:

Most sincerely asking. Does that mean that you think people have a budget earmarked for travel and that they'll spend it all regardless? TIA.

 

For me the answer is an obvious no.  Why spend a bunch of money on a substandard experience?

 

19 hours ago, mom says said:

Oh, please, just stop. None of that makes a person more susceptible to the virus. What it does is make them more vulnerable to severe symptoms and possible long lasting disability/death. Trying to claim that the US uncontrolled COVID spread is due to obesity and chronic health problems is beyond ludicrous.

 

I partially agree with this.  I wonder if the fact that severe cases stay sick longer infect more people.  To me, the biggest thing is that people - especially the young - don't seem to care any more.  They have seen the data and are rolling the dice that they will be OK.  Dr. Fauci admonished young people yesterday to have some amount of respect for their older family members:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/coronavirus-task-force-to-young-people-you-will-infect-someone-vulnerable.html 

Edited June 27, 2020 by SelectSys

[Roger88]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

Read an article today about tourism where we live.

 

According to the tourism council foreign visitors make up five percent of the total numbers.

 

But...they account for 24 percent of the revenue.

These tourists come with pockets full of money to buy some useless souvenirs and stay in the overprices hotels. No wonder that in a week time that can spend more money than an average local citizen. If these people wont visit the place for more than a year, the city might lose all tourist oriented businesses 

[SelectSys]

35 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

These tourists come with pockets full of money to buy some useless souvenirs and stay in the overprices hotels. No wonder that in a week time that can spend more money than an average local citizen...

 

No where is this more true than in Venice.  Some of the Venetian locals are looking for a new,  more balanced way of life.

 

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/sns-nyt-venice-glimpses-a-future-with-fewer-tourists-20200607-fab2pjxperdwrez6ciqqc5dsdi-story.html

[chipmaster]

42 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

These tourists come with pockets full of money to buy some useless souvenirs and stay in the overprices hotels. No wonder that in a week time that can spend more money than an average local citizen. If these people wont visit the place for more than a year, the city might lose all tourist oriented businesses 

 

A huge adjustment for business and the look/feel of places that used to depend on tourism to change, some of it will be good, making more authentic to visit, but what economy will survive, LOL

 

Venice and other places would truely look special but how will they survive and would they lose their appeal, hard to say.

[SRF]

On 6/27/2020 at 10:48 AM, ilikeanswers said:

 

That is 40 million Americans who visited Europe. France only got 8 million American visitors. 2018 the country received total 89.4 m visitors, I think they are alright 😉. 

 

You are missing my point.

 

I did not say that 40 million visit France.  

 

My point with France was I was in France the summer of 2003, when most Americans cancelled trips to France.

 

And the French economy was in bad shape due to the lack of American tourists.

 

Enough so, that French people, finding I was American, asked me why the Americans were not coming to France.

 

BTW, if you think a 10% reduction is OK, tell you boss that a 10% reduction in your salary will be fine.

 

Also, what the relative amounts spent by tourists from different countries?  10% less tourists might mean a more than 10% reduction in tourist spending.

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

My point with France was I was in France the summer of 2003, when most Americans cancelled trips to France.

 

And the French economy was in bad shape due to the lack of American tourists. 

 

I don't know what the demographics of tourists were in 2003 but that was a, long time ago, nearly two decades, a lot might have changed. Maybe back then they had less British and mainland Europeans visiting. 2018 USA visitors came in number 5 of visiting nationalities that to me doesn't signal dependant unless your business only caters to Americans. Americans are known to be spenders but they are also known not to travel much beyond the big ticket sights which means they are not spreading the tourist dollar around the country and are probably in places that have enough tourists already. Since you like anecdotal evidence my experience driving around France is you don't find Americans beyond the typical tour routes. Outside of those routes most tourists we encountered were other French, Germans, British and sometimes Spanish especially around the Pyrenees. The amount of times I encountered American tourists I could count on one hand. Though we did meet an American expat who gave us a wonderful tour of a village church😉. 

[K32682]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

Americans are known to be spenders but they are also known not to travel much beyond the big ticket sights which means they are not spreading the tourist dollar around the country and are probably in places that have enough tourists already. Since you like anecdotal evidence my experience driving around France is you don't find Americans beyond the typical tour routes. Outside of those routes most tourists we encountered were other French, Germans, British and sometimes Spanish especially around the Pyrenees. The amount of times I encountered American tourists I could count on one hand. Though we did meet an American expat who gave us a wonderful tour of a village church😉. 

 

It's not "anecdotal" but "empirical" evidence.  😉

 

It also aligns with my own experiences off the beaten path.  Americans and, to a degree, Canadians are big fans of the packaged tours on buses and cruises and you encounter them less often outside of urban centers. 

[mom says]

It appears to be official now. The member states in the EU reached  agreement on a list of accepted countries to enter as tourists. There are 15 countries, including China. The US will remain excluded for now. Apparently those darned Europeans would rather squeak by economically without those US greenbacks,  in favor of staying healthy. 

[ontheweb]

14 minutes ago, mom says said:

It appears to be official now. The member states in the EU reached  agreement on a list of accepted countries to enter as tourists. There are 15 countries, including China. The US will remain excluded for now. Apparently those darned Europeans would rather squeak by economically without those US greenbacks,  in favor of staying healthy. 

I guess instead of making America great, we have made America grate on others.😢

[clo]

2 hours ago, mom says said:

It appears to be official now. The member states in the EU reached  agreement on a list of accepted countries to enter as tourists. There are 15 countries, including China. The US will remain excluded for now. Apparently those darned Europeans would rather squeak by economically without those US greenbacks,  in favor of staying healthy. 

I'm guessing you're in agreement with them 🙂 I sure am.

[ldubs]

Why would anyone not agree with the EU or anyone else who wants to restrict their borders to protect their citizens.  Funny, in a not funny way, is how outraged some people were early on when we wanted to close our borders.  

[navybankerteacher]

On 6/26/2020 at 8:56 PM, ilikeanswers said:

 

Out of curiosity I looked up some numbers. There was one statistic that said about 30 - 40 million Americans visit Europe per year. Which sounds like a lot but spread around Europe and it is not a lot of people per country. Focusing on Greece about 4.5 million Germans visited last year whereas Americans accounted for just under a million visitors.

Not quite - it is more like about 40 million Americans travelled outside the US - places like Asia, Latin America, Canada, Caribbean, etc. as well as Europe. Perhaps 17 million to Europe.

[ldubs]

I just read that of 4 million people taking a cruise in the Mediterranean, 700,000 were North Americans.  I think that was for 2018.   I would have thought North Americans would be a higher percentage.   

Edited June 30, 2020 by ldubs

[calliopecruiser]

25 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Funny, in a not funny way, is how outraged some people were early on when we wanted to close our borders.

The difference is in the motivation, not the action.  One is about a contagious disease, the other is about ideology. 

[ldubs]

21 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

The difference is in the motivation, not the action.  One is about a contagious disease, the other is about ideology. 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about.   But if it is political, please keep it to yourself.      

[clo]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

Why would anyone not agree with the EU

I'm not seeing any but I'm sure there must be.

[calliopecruiser]

33 minutes ago, ldubs said:

I have no idea what you are talking about.   But if it is political, please keep it to yourself.

Excellent, because I thought yours was political too.

[GrJ Berkshire]

Taking it back to borders closing and loss of international tourism , this will have an existential affect on the cruise industry and indeed airlines, many will not survive this?

Boeing is already in trouble following the 737max issues, who is going to buy new planes in this economic climate?

I can see many cruise ships going to the breakers yards, especially the mega 4000/ 5000 passenger ships.

Equally with reduced flights globally getting crew to the ships will be challenging, few are from developed western countries.

 

 

 

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Not quite - it is more like about 40 million Americans travelled outside the US - places like Asia, Latin America, Canada, Caribbean, etc. as well as Europe. Perhaps 17 million to Europe.

 

I had another look and it seems I did mis read the stats:

 

Record 93 Million U.S. Citizens Traveled Outside the Country in 2018

 

Either way it still stands Europe is not dependant on Americans for tourism. 

[calliopecruiser]

4 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

this will have an existential affect on the cruise industry and indeed airlines, many will not survive this?

Hotels as well - I think hotels most of all, who were already having difficulty with the AirBnB type offerings. 

[ontheweb]

On 6/27/2020 at 11:35 AM, c-boy said:

a flaw in human character has no nationality or boundaries

But it seems only Americans brag about it. They claim it makes them great.