Tipping based on TOTAL service

[azalea4va]

I am about to take my second cruise on NCL. For many things, I find that NCl engages in unfair business practices, in some cases what I consider fraud.  Even if the unjust act itself is not 'service", the interaction with customer service certainly is.  The stuff that happens before the cruise is just as important to my overall satisfaction with my sailing experience as that which happens on the cruise.  If a service charge is to reward good service, shouldn't it apply to the overall experience?

Even if you have thus far had all totally pleasant experiences, if someone does have poor service either pre-cruise or during cruise, how do you react to customers reducing the "official" service charge paid from your account.  (This could be in conjunction with giving cash tips with particular crew members you want to reward.)

I am less concerned with the money than with sending a message to management.  If one reduces the service charge amount, one has to do so through customer service and tell them why.  That sends a messsage and if many people did it, it would send a loud message.  Let me give one example.  One of the supposed perks offered by NCL on some voyages is a $200 airfare credit, provided you book through NCL. You do not find out until you have bought your cruise what this supposed benefit provides.  In my case, I could buy the ticket on my own from almost any source for about $300 or I could buy it from NCL for $600 minus the $200 credit for a net of $400.  Maybe if NCL got thousands of reports from customer service about customers taking $100 off their service charge as a result of such deceptive practices,  maybe they might consider a more honest approach advisable?
 

I have not done this, but am wondering what other cruisers think.

[LHT28]

do the math if you can get the air cheaper on your own  then do it

No need to book with NCL

I do not believe it is mandatory to book the air with NCL

 

Since your  question is about NCL  maybe post on that forum

[azalea4va]

No my question is not about NCL, it is about the general principle of if one receives bad service pre-departure that impacts ones overall satisfaction with the cruise experieince, is it ok to consider the service charge as a reflection of the overall service.

 

(FWIW: Duh, yes I booked on my own.  Again, you missed the point. To promote that buying the cruise would result in a lower airfare then only AFTER buying the cruise, reveal that the savings was as phony as a $3-dollar bill, that I do consider a customer unfriendly practice that downgrades MY customer satisfaction. You might be OK with that kind of business practice, but I am not alone in finding it distasteful.)

[sparks1093]

The service charges you pay are for the staff on board who would be traditionally tipped/tipped out on other cruise lines. The shore folks all work for a set salary. Dunning the shipboard staff for something that is done shore side wouldn't be fair. 

[RocketMan275]

22 minutes ago, azalea4va said:

No my question is not about NCL, it is about the general principle of if one receives bad service pre-departure that impacts ones overall satisfaction with the cruise experieince, is it ok to consider the service charge as a reflection of the overall service.

 

 

No, it is not 'OK' to use the service charge for this purpose.  The service charge is used to compensate members of the cruise for their service.  The service charge has nothing to do with anyone but the crew.   

[mnocket]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, it is not 'OK' to use the service charge for this purpose.  The service charge is used to compensate members of the cruise for their service.  The service charge has nothing to do with anyone but the crew.   

And this should end the discussion, but of course it won't😀

[Toofarfromthesea]

51 minutes ago, azalea4va said:

I am about to take my second cruise on NCL. For many things, I find that NCl engages in unfair business practices, in some cases what I consider fraud.  Even if the unjust act itself is not 'service", the interaction with customer service certainly is.  The stuff that happens before the cruise is just as important to my overall satisfaction with my sailing experience as that which happens on the cruise.  If a service charge is to reward good service, shouldn't it apply to the overall experience?

Even if you have thus far had all totally pleasant experiences, if someone does have poor service either pre-cruise or during cruise, how do you react to customers reducing the "official" service charge paid from your account.  (This could be in conjunction with giving cash tips with particular crew members you want to reward.)

I am less concerned with the money than with sending a message to management.  If one reduces the service charge amount, one has to do so through customer service and tell them why.  That sends a messsage and if many people did it, it would send a loud message.  Let me give one example.  One of the supposed perks offered by NCL on some voyages is a $200 airfare credit, provided you book through NCL. You do not find out until you have bought your cruise what this supposed benefit provides.  In my case, I could buy the ticket on my own from almost any source for about $300 or I could buy it from NCL for $600 minus the $200 credit for a net of $400.  Maybe if NCL got thousands of reports from customer service about customers taking $100 off their service charge as a result of such deceptive practices,  maybe they might consider a more honest approach advisable?
 

I have not done this, but am wondering what other cruisers think.

 

I think it is unwise to book a cruise on a cruise line when you dislike it so much.  Why would you do that?  Isn't it better to try a different cruise line than engage in quixotic polemics with the thought that you will change the line you obviously despise?  Not to mention the searing illogic of penalizing employees because you don't like the corporate behavior.

[LHT28]

I do  not think I missed the point

You  do not have to take the airfare from the cruise line

They probably offer the same  deal across the board  the fact you can fly cheaper  than maybe someone else  is a moot point 

maybe someone else would pay $600 to fly to the ship  so the saving would benefit them

Just cancel the cruise  if you are not happy  but do not punish the onboard staff because you did not get the deal you thought you should

JMO

[Karysa]

Write a letter. Cancel the cruise. Book another line next time. Complain on here. Stiffing the hardworking crew for things that are out of their control is down right mean.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Karysa

[SantaFeFan]

Five posts and four are accusing NCL of scams and deceptive practices, and now is trying to get approval to take his dissatisfaction out on innocent crew members. 

 

Is it worth holding a discussion with someone who only posts accusations and assumes the cruise lines are cheating people?

Edited April 2, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[Flatbush Flyer]

OP: There are other cruise lines.

[sanger727]

While I personally wouldn’t, I do think people lower the service charge at times due to their overall onboard experience. However, you are describing a pre-cruise experience that has nothing to do with the people you interact with onboard. How does lowering the charge meant to support the onboard staff based on a corporate NCL policy make sense? That’s a bit like saying the cruise was more expensive than you think it should be so you are going to get your money back by stuffing the crew. That’s a bit selfish.

[Joebucks]

I remember the good old days when we felt a product or service wasn't for us, we wouldn't choose to purchase it.

 

Enter the golden internet age. Buy anything. Demand it conforms to your every wish.

[azalea4va]

This was not a decision I had made, I was looking for another perspective.  I appreciate those that replied politely.  But some of the comments were a bit harsh.  As I stated when I asked my question, I was not precluding  tipping privately to those most responsible for my experience onboard.  This was not about saving movey and I did want to reward those crew members.  I do regret that I even gave NCL as an example as it was not my intent for that to be the focus of this discussion.

Let me re-word the narrative, as in my limited cruise experience I have met many hard working staff that I do not want to hurt.  But I am a consumer advocate and there are many businesses out there that have practices that are very consumer unfriendly.  In general, the cruise industry falls into this category. Almost any cruise line will promote that "customer satisfaction" is our utmost priority, yet certain bean-counters in the company will resort to any trick in the books to maximize profits.  Sometimes the bean counters win.

 

Now if you do not think this is a problem in the cruise industry, that is fine.   I am not alone in thinking there is a problem. So far, responders have thought my proposed solution of how to send a message, without hurting innocent crew members, was a bad one.  Hey, that is why I asked.  I appreciate the advice.  Like with the airlines, just "don't book with them" is frequently not a viable solution.  This is particular true in an industry that has condensed so 4 cruise companies account for over 85% of the passenger traffic.  I just get so frustrated that, be it cruise lines, airlines, cable companies, etc; there are so many questionable practices out there. I am always searching for ways consumers can have greater influence in nudging companies toward a more honest and transparent interaction with their customers. Sorry for the vent.

Edited April 2, 2019 by azalea4va

[navybankerteacher]

Why go back to NCL if the first experience with the line’s home office was so bad on your first cruise that you feel it justifies stiffing some of the shipboard staff on you next cruise?  I wonder if OP would feel justified in shoplifting from a Piggly Wiggly in Goldsboro, NC because the Piggly Wiggly in Tarboro  sold him some sour milk?

[Schoifmom]

34 minutes ago, azalea4va said:

So far, responders have thought my proposed solution of how to send a message, without hurting innocent crew members, was a bad one.  

 

Unfortunately, your proposed solution (1) would not send your intended message and (2) would hurt innocent crew members.  Not trying to be harsh here, but as a consumer advocate, you might want to think bigger picture and make a serious attempt to understand how corporations work.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Schoifmom

[donaldsc]

3 hours ago, azalea4va said:

I am about to take my second cruise on NCL. For many things, I find that NCl engages in unfair business practices, in some cases what I consider fraud.  Even if the unjust act itself is not 'service", the interaction with customer service certainly is.  The stuff that happens before the cruise is just as important to my overall satisfaction with my sailing experience as that which happens on the cruise.  If a service charge is to reward good service, shouldn't it apply to the overall experience?

Even if you have thus far had all totally pleasant experiences, if someone does have poor service either pre-cruise or during cruise, how do you react to customers reducing the "official" service charge paid from your account.  (This could be in conjunction with giving cash tips with particular crew members you want to reward.)

I am less concerned with the money than with sending a message to management.  If one reduces the service charge amount, one has to do so through customer service and tell them why.  That sends a messsage and if many people did it, it would send a loud message.  Let me give one example.  One of the supposed perks offered by NCL on some voyages is a $200 airfare credit, provided you book through NCL. You do not find out until you have bought your cruise what this supposed benefit provides.  In my case, I could buy the ticket on my own from almost any source for about $300 or I could buy it from NCL for $600 minus the $200 credit for a net of $400.  Maybe if NCL got thousands of reports from customer service about customers taking $100 off their service charge as a result of such deceptive practices,  maybe they might consider a more honest approach advisable?
 

I have not done this, but am wondering what other cruisers think.

 

What does the diatribe about the fact that you have failed to check on air fares have to do with post on tipping.  By the way, I do disagree with your stand on tipping also.

 

DON

[taglovestocruise]

3 hours ago, azalea4va said:

 

I have not done this, but am wondering what other cruisers think.

The service charge is for the service you receive, good, bad, or indifferent.  If you get great service tip a little extra, bad service leave the service charge in place.  I also have a pet peeve with hotels in Las Vegas, they all add a 20% to 30% daily resort fee for all the amenities around the hotel. I travel to Vegas 6 times a year to visit my older in laws, never do I use the resort amenities but yet I am forced to pay the fee. Last month my mother in law found me a great price at Red Rock Casino mid week. Hotel was $ 39.00 per night but wait, the daily service resort fee was a extra $59.99 a night.   Grin and bare it, don't take advantage of the staff.  Sooner or later the cruise Ines will just bump up the cabin price and do away with tipping.  Sooner would be much better if they are listening...

[klfrodo]

I'm thinking I'm not getting my 3 minutes back that I put into opening this thread.

[leaveitallbehind]

4 hours ago, azalea4va said:

No my question is not about NCL, it is about the general principle of if one receives bad service pre-departure that impacts ones overall satisfaction with the cruise experieince, is it ok to consider the service charge as a reflection of the overall service.

 

(FWIW: Duh, yes I booked on my own.  Again, you missed the point. To promote that buying the cruise would result in a lower airfare then only AFTER buying the cruise, reveal that the savings was as phony as a $3-dollar bill, that I do consider a customer unfriendly practice that downgrades MY customer satisfaction. You might be OK with that kind of business practice, but I am not alone in finding it distasteful.)

 

If your question is not about NCL, why do you mention them 6 times in your original post and describe your dissatisfaction with them only?  More importantly as others have questioned, why book with them a second time if you are unhappy with their business practices?  Confused.....(and rapidly losing interest, especially after scanning your only other posts on CC - common agenda).

Edited April 2, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[Nic6318]

Hi Azalea

 

Your logic fails me. You are disappointed in fact that there was something that you didn't understand (in fact you didn't understand what you didn't understand), you went ahead with your booking. Once you understood what you didn't understand, you blame the cruise line. Of course it couldn't be your fault, for not doing some research beforehand...after all...YOU were lacking in the knowledge and YOU didn't do the research beforehand. 

 

So you say about NCL "unfair business practice...in some cases what you consider fraud"....and you go ahead and book another cruise with them....!!!! You can't be serious. The you come on this web site, where you could actually spend some time learning about other things that you are unaware of, and you make the suggestion that because you didn't do your research and you weren't happy (with your ignorance costing you), you could make up the difference by stiffing the cabin stewards and wait staff on the ship. I think you need to first realize where blame should be placed.

[bonsai3s]

3 hours ago, Karysa said:

Write a letter. Cancel the cruise. Book another line next time. Complain on here. Stiffing the hardworking crew for things that are out of their control is down right mean.

 

Well said...thanks.

[azalea4va]

Please stop with the character attacks that I was trying to stiff the staff.  I may have been unclear, but that was not at all about what I was proposing.

 

As I said twice before, I was trying to find a way to send a message to management WITHOUT HURTING OR SHORT CHANGING THE CREW, by tipping "off-book".   I get it, it was a bad idea.  That is why I asked the question before I did it.

For the question that has been asked a few times...

 

Why go back?  I avoided them. But for the trip that was desired, there was no practical alternative.  And I knew what to watch out for. So like taglovestocruise said, I was willing to grin-and-bear-it, but also wanted to send a message to management (again, while still giving the crew a full tip).  Given thse comments, I will just have to rely on the traditional mechanisms, no better tool found.

 

 

[sloopsailor]

53 minutes ago, azalea4va said:

Please stop with the character attacks that I was trying to stiff the staff.  I may have been unclear, but that was not at all about what I was proposing.

 

As I said twice before, I was trying to find a way to send a message to management WITHOUT HURTING OR SHORT CHANGING THE CREW, by tipping "off-book".   I get it, it was a bad idea.  That is why I asked the question before I did it.

For the question that has been asked a few times...

 

Why go back?  I avoided them. But for the trip that was desired, there was no practical alternative.  And I knew what to watch out for. So like taglovestocruise said, I was willing to grin-and-bear-it, but also wanted to send a message to management (again, while still giving the crew a full tip).  Given thse comments, I will just have to rely on the traditional mechanisms, no better tool found.

 

 

 

When a person in virtually every post he makes repeatedly accuses a company of “unfair business practices”, “false advertising”, "unjust actions", “deceptive practices” and “fraud” [YOUR WORDS], even resurrecting a year old thread to post such accusations, it is difficult not to suspect that your motives weren't honorable. We get it. You think that NCL practices criminal behavior. Then you voluntarily book another cruise with a business you clearly do not trust, and then you ask if stiffing the crew (yes, that would be exactly what stiffing is) to send a "message" is acceptable. 

 

Hard to be sympathetic to your concerns. 

 

As to your plea to "stop the character attacks", a person must display good character before it can be attacked. Most of us are just responding to what appeared to be bad faith actions on your part. We are simply reacting to what you wrote.  

Edited April 2, 2019 by sloopsailor

[mom says]

For someone who claims to be a consumer advocate you seem to be remarkably ignorant of the way large corporations work, how to properly lodge a complaint, and how to increase public awareness to the ethical and/or legal shortcomings of these corporations. At any time have you actually sent a letter or email to NCL? Have you, at any time, sent a complaint the BBB or any consumer protection agency?  Since you seem certain that they are committing fraud, have you contacted the Attorney General's Office? Any or all of these would seem to me to be a logical first step. You could even be one of "those" who rant on Facebook. But you immediately jumped on stiffing the on board crew....