do you realize how complicated it will be for cruising to restart

[clo]

1 hour ago, DarrenM said:

So it's ok to put yourself at risk for work but not a beer? The world is either safe or it isnt.

Your two sentences here have no relationship to each other. And the second is false.

[sanger727]

3 hours ago, DarrenM said:

Just playing devil's advocate here a bit.

 

Buy why is it deemed ok to go to work or send kids to schools, witha lot using public transport like the tube in london yet its dangerous to sit in a pub?

 

Or is it simply we can take risks going to work on public transport but not something sociable?

 

1 hour ago, DarrenM said:

So it's ok to put yourself at risk for work but not a beer? The world is either safe or it isnt.

 

The answer is that the world "isn't safe". There are many bad things that they are trying to balance:

1. people getting sick and dying unncessarily

2. Too many people getting sick at once and overrunning healthcare system

3. People losing their jobs, businesses going under, and the world economy spiralling in a recession/depressiong

4. Students not receiving a quality education because the average parent has no teaching experience

 

We started by valuing numbers 1 and 2, and slowly we are realizing that numbers 3 and 4 are becoming bigger priorities. So the question how to do you best satisfy numbers 3 and 4 while maintaining 1 and 2. The answer is that you re-establish industries while social distancing in place and situations that are completely optional and where people are are not likely to respect social distancing (drunk people being chummy) you continue to ban.

[DarrenM]

Our ridiculous government is most definitely telling people to go back to work. But they would prefer you to take your car.......in central London lol.

 

If you dony have a car take the tube or a bus. But they are also encouraging you not to use public transport.

 

Work that out if you can.

[DarrenM]

And of course the healthcare system hasn't been overrun. Mainly because old people with covid werent allowed in.

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course not - you “live in lock-down” no longer than is  necessary to break the uptrend in deaths. You return to normal return as soon as possible - prioritizing what is more important:  obviously schools and jobs and necessary day-to-day activities are important — cruising ???? - I’m sorry... not so much.

 

If stupid people want to smoke and drink themselves to death - that is too bad —— but if stupid people also want to risk the lives of others by refusing to comply with steps to contain contagion - that is more than too bad.

 

Again - try looking for relevant comparisons.

 

You must think second hand smoke is a myth and that person who gets t-bone by a drunk driver is stupid. 

 

Sorry, I don't like it when people use the "how many deaths is acceptable argument".  Nothing above zero is acceptable but we will never achieve that, as you well know.  

[Markanddonna]

26 minutes ago, clo said:

But you'll do some other kind of travel in the meantime, right?

I used to prefer to get back/forth to Europe at least one way by transatlantic cruising.  I'm not sure I would do that right away. I'm a historian, so I want to return to Poland and Israel and Turkey.  I'll likely visit Prague and Budapest while I'm in Poland and go by train. 

[clo]

7 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

Our ridiculous government is most definitely telling people to go back to work. But they would prefer you to take your car.......in central London lol.

 

If you dony have a car take the tube or a bus. But they are also encouraging you not to use public transport.

 

Work that out if you can.

Sounds like the UK has come up with a ton of good rules. Including that you would have to quarantine after your supposed cruise.

 

https://www.cipd.co.uk/knowledge/fundamentals/emp-law/employees/workplace-guide-returning-after-coronavirus

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

You must think second hand smoke is a myth and that person who gets t-bone by a drunk driver is stupid. 

 

Sorry, I don't like it when people use the "how many deaths is acceptable argument".  Nothing above zero is acceptable but we will never achieve that, as you well know.  

Of course I do not think second hand smoke is a myth - I happen to think only terminally stupid or pathetically weak-willed people continue to smoke.    I have no idea where you got the idea that anyone thinks a person killed by a drunk driver is stupid:  you should give up totally irrelevant and inapplicable comparisons.

 

I get it: you apparently do not think COVID 19 is a threat warranting restrictions on certain UNNECESSARY activities such as cruising.

 

Of course death happens - but an intelligent, civilized society will take reasonable steps to limit rampant contagion in efforts to hold down AVOIDABLE  deaths.  I do not give a damn if you want to cruise -with or without protocols to limit contagion - but I do not think you have the absolute right to impose possible contagion upon others with whom you come in contact.  If your community does not wish to apply measures such as limiting activities considered risky or requiring quarantining those who undertake such activities, that is your community’s call. But, since the first Neanderthals started sharing caves, thinking creatures started accepting community decisions. 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, DarrenM said:

So it's ok to put yourself at risk for work but not a beer? 

 

2 hours ago, DarrenM said:

I am not sure but I dont think covid 19 knows the difference between work and leisure. 

 

Have you never heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Basic needs (food, shelter) must be met first, before psychological ones (love, sense of belonging).

 

I am much more likely to willingly take a bigger risk going to work if it is the only way I can earn money to provide food and shelter to my family.

 

Going out for a drink with my mates would be something I'd place much MUCH lower down the lists of things I'd want to risk my skin for.  

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by cruisemom42

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, DarrenM said:

So it's ok to put yourself at risk for work but not a beer? The world is either safe or it isnt.

Of course the world is not “safe” — never has been and probably never will.  But,  the intelligent man will weigh risks vs. rewards.

 

Work (for most of us) is a necessity for life, while a beer (especially one drunk in a crowded pub) is an option.  Intelligent people will try to work safely — and, assuming beer drinkers are intelligent, perhaps they will consider performing that activity safely.

 

 

[DarrenM]

36 minutes ago, clo said:

Sounds like the UK has come up with a ton of good rules. Including that you would have to quarantine after your supposed cruise.

 

https://www.cipd.co.uk/knowledge/fundamentals/emp-law/employees/workplace-guide-returning-after-coronavirus

Hahahahaha seriously they haven't.

 

Our leader is a joke and has basically disappeared. Do this dont do this. Do that dont do that.

 

Testing is rubbish we need to test.

 

Dont stop flights let's stop flights.

 

Dont wear masks you need a mask.

 

The NHS has PPE no it doesn't

 

That's just for starters.

 

 

 

 

[DarrenM]

13 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

Have you never heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Basic needs (food, shelter) must be met first, before psychological ones (love, sense of belonging).

 

I am much more likely to willingly take a bigger risk going to work if it is the only way I can earn money to provide food and shelter to my family.

 

Going out for a drink with my mates would be something I'd place much MUCH lower down the lists of things I'd want to risk my skin for.  

 

 

Right I dont disagree but once you have been on that bus or tube for however long then what extra risk are you taking having a beer?

 

I can socially distance in a pub just as easily as a bus or the tube. Or even an office.

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, DarrenM said:

Right I dont disagree but once you have been on that bus or tube for however long then what extra risk are you taking having a beer?

 

I can socially distance in a pub just as easily as a bus or the tube. Or even an office.

 

 

Perhaps you can socially distance as easily — what you seem to ignore is the fact that there is (or, at least, should be) a difference between essential and optional activities.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, DarrenM said:

Hahahahaha seriously they haven't.

 

Our leader is a joke and has basically disappeared. Do this dont do this. Do that dont do that.

 

Testing is rubbish we need to test.

 

Dont stop flights let's stop flights.

 

Dont wear masks you need a mask.

 

The NHS has PPE no it doesn't

 

That's just for starters.

 

 

 

 

Hey, not fair!!! Boasting about how much better your leader is than ours at handling the situation is just rubbing salt (which should in be on the rims of our margarita glasses) into the wound.

[clo]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Going out for a drink with my mates would be something I'd place much MUCH lower down the lists of things I'd want to risk my skin for.  

 

You betcha! We have a fave Mexican/Margarita place that's been serving out of one of their windows for some weeks now. We sit in our car and have our food and drink, social distance, chat with people getting their provisions and have a fun time. As fun as being inside? No. But totally acceptable.

[DarrenM]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Hey, not fair!!! Boasting about how much better your leader is than ours at handling the situation is just rubbing salt (which should in be on the rims of our margarita glasses) into the wound.

I do apologise. A million apologies.

[DarrenM]

Your leader is as mad as a hatter ours just disappears for weeks.

 

Then he appears and  first pumps and pretends he is churchill, talks utter nonsense and disappears again for a week or so.

 

But he hasn't suggested anything revolving around cleaning products.

 

So all is good.

[Mike981]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course I do not think second hand smoke is a myth - I happen to think only terminally stupid or pathetically weak-willed people continue to smoke.  

 

Hmmm~

[navybankerteacher]

Your “Hmmm~” raises a question.  

 

Do you think it is particularly intelligent for people to spend a lot of money (*) consuming a product which is generally and broadly known to be harmful to health, if not actually ultimately fatal;  or do you think that being unable to give up a habit which you know to be harmful to yourself and others around you - and whose continuance deprives you of the wherewithal to enjoy other options does not indicate an inability to apply self-discipline?

 

* A person who smokes a pack a day at $7.50 a pack burns (literally) what could have bought a week-long cruise for two every year.

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Please re read my post, I did at specify non essential workers. From what I have read the poster seems to suggest that the UK is encouraging people to go to work despite the lock down which is different to what other countries are doing which is discouraging people from going to work if they can do so from home or are classed as non essential. That is what sparked my curiosity. 

I wonder who determines essential and non-essential.

 

Why is our dentist considered non-essential? Why are liquor stores essential? Why is the store in my town that does only bottle returns for the cash back essential? I bet my DW is really beginning to think that the hair salon she goes to should be considered essential. And in a supposedly civilized society why are libraries and museums not essential? Couldn't they open with the same social distancing rules as grocery store and drug stores?

[Shmoo here]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

I wonder who determines essential and non-essential.

 

Why is our dentist considered non-essential? Why are liquor stores essential? Why is the store in my town that does only bottle returns for the cash back essential? I bet my DW is really beginning to think that the hair salon she goes to should be considered essential. And in a supposedly civilized society why are libraries and museums not essential? Couldn't they open with the same social distancing rules as grocery store and drug stores?

Dentists here are essential, for emergency work.  That said, some have started taking "regular" appointments again (generally anyone who had to cancel due to shut down).

 

Liquor stores are not essential, unless they also sell food.

 

I'd guess the bottle buy-back location would be essential so that people can get money.

 

Libraries & museums - people tend to stay there for hours, and congregate in front of displays.  While at grocery/drug stores everyone pretty much keeps moving and is in and out fairly quickly.

 

 

[clo]

9 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Why are liquor stores essential?

They aren't in NV. My hair salon has just re=opened.

[Charles4515]

I wonder who determines essential and non-essential.
 
Why is our dentist considered non-essential? Why are liquor stores essential? Why is the store in my town that does only bottle returns for the cash back essential? I bet my DW is really beginning to think that the hair salon she goes to should be considered essential. And in a supposedly civilized society why are libraries and museums not essential? Couldn't they open with the same social distancing rules as grocery store and drug stores?

I read that liquor stores are considered essential because of concern that alcohol dependent people would go into withdrawal and seek medical attention at a time when hospitals are stretched thin.



Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[ontheweb]

1 minute ago, Shmoo here said:

Dentists here are essential, for emergency work.  That said, some have started taking "regular" appointments again (generally anyone who had to cancel due to shut down).

 

Liquor stores are not essential, unless they also sell food.

 

I'd guess the bottle buy-back location would be essential so that people can get money.

 

Libraries & museums - people tend to stay there for hours, and congregate in front of displays.  While at grocery/drug stores everyone pretty much keeps moving and is in and out fairly quickly.

 

 

Liquor stores here in NY state seem to be classified as essential, and there seems to be no need for them to sell food.

 

As for our dentist, all I know is that we both had appointments this month and were called and told they were cancelled until further notice. Their parking lot is always empty.

[ontheweb]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

They aren't in NV. My hair salon has just re=opened.

Their opening in NY state has been put off for at least a couple of weeks. There have been demonstrations by barbers and hair stylists protesting.