Cruise lines requiring COVID-19 vaccination

[bazzaw]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:41 AM, avalon007 said:

I find based on the stats there seems to be in some cases an irrational fear of dying from Covid -

Will you please stop speaking the truth and arguing logically when it comes to Covid19 - they will get you nowhere. Last year we had 6 deaths in Queensland - supposedly from Covid although they were very early on in the year and I am unsure that the medicos even knew who had Covid then and who did not. Meanwhile  in the same timeframe we have 200+ road deaths in Qld alone. There was not one road/highway closure or cars banned from leaving the house in an attempt to prevent this carnage. It seems like Queenslanders have become numb to road deaths. 

[bazzaw]

I am interested in these latest two developments - to see where they lead and also what impact they will have.  The first was this revelation https://www.smh.com.au/world/south-america/argentine-president-tests-positive-to-covid-despite-vaccination-20210404-p57gdo.html  and the second is this WHO "ruling" https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/who-urges-against-vaccine-passports-even-for-international-travel-20210407-p57h0d.html   So - closer to home - what will authorities do when , for the first time, a vaccinated health worker is discovered to be positive for Covid and has been out in the community for some time.  What will Australian authorities do if WHO pushes harder on the idea of no required evidence of vaccination ( due to inequities, etc)  

[Blackduck59]

3 minutes ago, bazzaw said:

Will you please stop speaking the truth and arguing logically when it comes to Covid19 - they will get you nowhere. Last year we had 6 deaths in Queensland - supposedly from Covid although they were very early on in the year and I am unsure that the medicos even knew who had Covid then and who did not. Meanwhile  in the same timeframe we have 200+ road deaths in Qld alone. There was not one road/highway closure or cars banned from leaving the house in an attempt to prevent this carnage. It seems like Queenslanders have become numb to road deaths. 

With all due respect, and a great deal of envy for the hard work by many and good luck by some in The land of Oz and New Zealand there are some places where there really is a problem. Right now British Columbia with a population smaller than the state of Victoria (by more than a million) we are averaging about 1,000 new cases a day and I can't remember the last time we went a day without a death from Covid.

With regard to deaths in traffic incidents there is millions of dollars spent every year on enforcement and infrastructure as well as advertising to try to educate and mitigate traffic deaths. I remember when they made seatbelts mandatory, what a cry went out by some. It never affected me because I was already buckling up since I started driving in 1975. 

[Docker123]

16 minutes ago, bazzaw said:

I am interested in these latest two developments - to see where they lead and also what impact they will have.  The first was this revelation https://www.smh.com.au/world/south-america/argentine-president-tests-positive-to-covid-despite-vaccination-20210404-p57gdo.html  and the second is this WHO "ruling" https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/who-urges-against-vaccine-passports-even-for-international-travel-20210407-p57h0d.html   So - closer to home - what will authorities do when , for the first time, a vaccinated health worker is discovered to be positive for Covid and has been out in the community for some time.  What will Australian authorities do if WHO pushes harder on the idea of no required evidence of vaccination ( due to inequities, etc)  

Just looking at your first point, people catching Covid after vaccination. I am not surprised at all.

 

Two factors to consider with this, or any other, vaccination.  It does not work immediately. The body takes some weeks to achieve maximum protection. Remember, they recommend getting flu vax  in April/May for maximum flu season June-August.

 

Second is that no vax works for everyone. That is why they keep reporting the efficacy percentages.  So, if it is 90% protection, then it does not work for 10%.

 

With those is what the vax actually does.  All the news indicate they are not good at preventing infection — just good at stopping it from getting bad.

 

 

[bazzaw]

2 minutes ago, Docker123 said:

Just looking at your first point, people catching Covid after vaccination. I am not surprised at all.

 

 

 

No - neither am I ! It has been widely reported that the vaccine neither stops you from getting the virus nor spreading it further. But it seems to me that many people are unaware of this or it's meaning - or are ignoring it and allowing their wishful thinking fantasies to guide their thinking. I am just wondering how this will affect Govt and peoples decisions when the reality of this fully sinks in. What will Anastasia do on the first time that a vaccinated health worker is tested positive - after having been out in the community??? 

[kate59]

1 hour ago, Blackduck59 said:

That too

 

3 hours ago, lyndarra said:

or

Sick Of Pandemic.

Actually I did get a laugh but in my career they where called Safe Operating Procedures.

[lyndarra]

1 hour ago, bazzaw said:

 What will Anastasia do on the first time that a vaccinated health worker is tested positive - after having been out in the community??? 

Not watching the news up there? It's already happened. A health worker was infected shortly after receiving their first shot.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pa-hospital-nurse-found-covid-positive-after-receiving-first-vaccine-dose-c-2481485

[onlyslightlymad]

1 hour ago, bazzaw said:

Will you please stop speaking the truth and arguing logically when it comes to Covid19 - they will get you nowhere. Last year we had 6 deaths in Queensland - supposedly from Covid although they were very early on in the year and I am unsure that the medicos even knew who had Covid then and who did not. Meanwhile  in the same timeframe we have 200+ road deaths in Qld alone. There was not one road/highway closure or cars banned from leaving the house in an attempt to prevent this carnage. It seems like Queenslanders have become numb to road deaths. 

The problem is that you can't use the six deaths as a Covid stat when you've been under lockdowns, distancing, masks and other mitigations.  The whole purpose of those procedures was to prevent deaths.  You could argue that six deaths shows how successful you have been.

As to road deaths, they are all tragic, but are not passed on exponentially.  It's not really comparing eggs with eggs.  Almost certainly there have been instances of deaths being attributed to Covid that are not as well as deaths attributed to other causes that are probably Covid.  The big questions is how many?  It takes some time for deaths to be checked and for stats to come out.  What we are looking for is excess deaths - how many more died than was predicted under normal circumstances.  In Aus and NZ not many, that's the whole point.  In Brazil, lots, but their President tried to prevent the statistics being published.  The Economist (who I respect) says that there were about 500000 extra deaths in the US in 2020.  Officially Covid accounted for about 350000 of them.  I'd say there's been a little bit of undercounting but we'll only really know looking back from several years in the future.

[Aus Traveller]

10 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

Not watching the news up there? It's already happened. A health worker was infected shortly after receiving their first shot.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/pa-hospital-nurse-found-covid-positive-after-receiving-first-vaccine-dose-c-2481485

A few weeks ago a security officer at a quarantine hotel was infected very shortly after her had his COVID shot. The important point is that (like a flu shot) it takes a few weeks for the vaccination to become effective.

[Aus Traveller]

10 minutes ago, onlyslightlymad said:

  The Economist (who I respect) says that there were about 500000 extra deaths in the US in 2020.  Officially Covid accounted for about 350000 of them.  I'd say there's been a little bit of undercounting but we'll only really know looking back from several years in the future.

Last year, it was reported that for a death in the US to be recorded as a death caused by COVID, the person had to die in hospital after being diagnosed. With their expensive health system, many poorer people can't afford to go to hospital.

[kate59]

5 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

A few weeks ago a security officer at a quarantine hotel was infected very shortly after her had his COVID shot. The important point is that (like a flu shot) it takes a few weeks for the vaccination to become effective.

This is so true. Years ago on our cruise to Japan I was a little late getting the flu shot. By the time we got to Darwin I was feeling bad. Yes diagnosed with flu, had the flu shot only days before leaving Sydney on the cruise. Drs told me then it hadn't been long enough and I probably would have had it worse if I hadn't had the flu shot. Slight temperature and aching bones. 2 days confined to cabin then ok and over it.

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, bazzaw said:

It has been widely reported that the vaccine neither stops you from getting the virus nor spreading it further. 

 

Things are looking promising:

Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines may block infection as well as disease

[Aus Traveller]

11 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Things are looking promising:

Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines may block infection as well as disease

Thanks for posting the link to this very interesting article.

[NSWP]

12 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Things are looking promising:

Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines may block infection as well as disease

But we are not having those ones. Most of us are getting the No frills Astra Zenaca, some day, some year !!

Edited April 7, 2021 by NSWP

[OzKiwiJJ]

13 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Things are looking promising:

Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines may block infection as well as disease

Although that study specifically mentioned those two vaccines I suspect the premise is true for all the vaccines but, of course, the study was being done on the vaccines currently most used in the US, although it does mention findings from Israel as well. 

 

As I understand it when someone catches the virus they are only exposed to a tiny amount. During the next few days the virus replicates in their body to the point where they start shedding it but don't yet have symptoms. The virus continues to replicate and that person becomes ill.

 

However with a vaccinated person their body is already primed to fight off that virus. It still replicates but more slowly as it is also under attack by antibodies. The article mentioned "Unvaccinated people produce 2.58 to 4.5 times more virus than vaccinated people do" so there is less chance of a vaccinated person shedding, and also the virus itself may be weaker, although I didn't see that specifically mentioned in the article. Whether a vaccinated person gets ill or not probably depends on how strong their antibodies are but even if they do get ill it would be a much milder illness than for an unvaccinated person.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, NSWP said:

But we are not having those ones. Most of us are getting the No frills Astra Zenaca, some day, some year !!

 

There was this side study in February:

AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine may cut spread of virus

 

But we still need to wait for results of a real world study however I suspect AstraZeneca might be a little distracted at the moment 😳. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by ilikeanswers

[NSWP]

I had my flu jab this morning at the large GP Centre where I am a registered patient. The centre is also the only covid vacc location in the area, for a population of 20,000 people, half of whom are retirees.  The nurse who gave me the flu jab told me, no more covid jabs this week, they are still only receiving 80 doses a week, they were all gone by Tuesday. One cannot book a covid vacc apppointment here. They call you as they work through patients lists for their own surgery and patient lists forwarded from the other small GP surgeries around here.

[MMDown Under]

29 minutes ago, NSWP said:

I had my flu jab this morning at the large GP Centre where I am a registered patient. The centre is also the only covid vacc location in the area, for a population of 20,000 people, half of whom are retirees.  The nurse who gave me the flu jab told me, no more covid jabs this week, they are still only receiving 80 doses a week, they were all gone by Tuesday. One cannot book a covid vacc apppointment here. They call you as they work through patients lists for their own surgery and patient lists forwarded from the other small GP surgeries around here.

My friend who was booked in to her local GP for the vaccine until we had 3 day lockdown here.  Then it was a case of we'll phone you.  Friends told them to phone a Respiratory Clinic and they both have appointments for next week.  

[gogo65]

On 4/4/2021 at 9:55 AM, NSWP said:

They could open a million vaccination centres, but without adequate supplies of serum arriving, what good are they? 

 

Our armed forces medical teams, docs, paramedics, nurses are very under utilised, we should be putting them to work at vacc centres, when the serum arrives in adequate volumes !!

I am an RN and NSW Health have mandated that vaccinators must have completed the vaccination course, a very intensive course with multiple quizzes and exams, taking months to complete, only a handful of people that can mark the mandated exams, so there is a back log. The reason for the requirements to have completed the course, RN’s cannot order a medication, so each medication would need to be ordered by a Doctor for a nurse to administer it, unless they were an accredited vaccinator. At our hospital they can’t give enough jabs because they dont have the accredited staff to administer. Thousands of RN’s that can administer an injection just not an accredited vaccinator....

[possum52]

1 hour ago, gogo65 said:

I am an RN and NSW Health have mandated that vaccinators must have completed the vaccination course, a very intensive course with multiple quizzes and exams, taking months to complete, only a handful of people that can mark the mandated exams, so there is a back log. The reason for the requirements to have completed the course, RN’s cannot order a medication, so each medication would need to be ordered by a Doctor for a nurse to administer it, unless they were an accredited vaccinator. At our hospital they can’t give enough jabs because they dont have the accredited staff to administer. Thousands of RN’s that can administer an injection just not an accredited vaccinator....

Thank you for explaining.

 

Leigh

[Porky55]

12 hours ago, gogo65 said:

Thousands of RN’s that can administer an injection just not an accredited vaccinator....

So …… our vaccination schedule too is bogged down in bureaucracy, they had over 12 months to sort this, but didn’t ……… go figure 🙄

[Docker123]

Well, things just got a whole lot worse with the recommendation that Astra should not be administered to those under 50.

 

Pfizer the preferred vaccination for those folk.

 

Too bad we have very little of it.

 

Seems something of an eggs-basket situation.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Docker123

[Chiliburn]

23 minutes ago, Porky55 said:

So …… our vaccination schedule too is bogged down in bureaucracy, they had over 12 months to sort this, but didn’t ……… go figure 🙄

No one under 50 to have the astra.

Now the long road to approve a new one.

[MicCanberra]

42 minutes ago, Docker123 said:

 

 

Seems something of an eggs-basket situation.

 

 

Easter lessons not learnt?

[NSWP]

42 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

No one under 50 to have the astra.

Now the long road to approve a new one.

And find the money, as originally the Pfizer was more expensive than the AstraZeneca.

 

So us oldies have to bat on with the AstraZenaca, they don't want to waste the good stuff on us, we are expendable.

 

Waiting for my flu jab yesterday there were half a dozen other oldies in the waiting room, got talking about covid jab, tell you what half of them said they would decline it, too dangerous and they were not travelling anyway, likewise in my street, 90% retirees, not much interest in getting the covid jabs, citing too dangerous with all them blood clots, one cannnot convince fools. I will accept my jab when they call me up, one day, one month, one year.😬

Edited April 8, 2021 by NSWP