Cruising Without a Vaccination

[grandpalarry777]

Does anyone know if any cruise lines will allow a person who cannot take the Covid vaccine due to health conditions to get an exemption from the "vaccinated only" cruise rules if they have a negative test?

[navybankerteacher]

I don’t think any firm protocols  are in place at this time - personally, I am not likely to cruise until all this is in the past.  Along with vaccine, the contemplated masking requirements, group tours only, distancing on board, etc. remove much of the charm from cruising.

[grandpalarry777]

navybankerteacher. Thanks for the reply. I agree that the whole vaccine, masks, distancing protocols ruin many of the benefits of cruising. Unfortunately, with the CDC apparently not knowing what cruising is, they are doing nothing to help resolve these issues.

 

After all, wasn't the vaccine supposed to save all of us from this impending death sentence? Now it is being said that even with the vaccine you can still contract covid and pass it to others. So much for all the hype from the government and billionaires as to how everyone MUST be vaccinated to save the world.

[Flatbush Flyer]

14 minutes ago, grandpalarry777 said:

Does anyone know if any cruise lines will allow a person who cannot take the Covid vaccine due to health conditions to get an exemption from the "vaccinated only" cruise rules if they have a negative test?

Antivaxxers will try anything to circumvent the vaccine requirement. Fortunately, most cruise lines (so far) have said “No vaccine? No cruise.”

And the CDC has said folks with underlying conditions not only can get vaccinated, they should.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/specific-groups/high-risk.html
 

And, of course, let’s all hope that, if someone really had a verifiable medical condition where the Covid vaccine was contraindicated, they would be unselfish enough to not put other cruisers at risk and would not step foot on a cruise ship. 

[clo]

14 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I don’t think any firm protocols  are in place at this time - personally, I am not likely to cruise until all this is in the past.  Along with vaccine, the contemplated masking requirements, group tours only, distancing on board, etc. remove much of the charm from cruising.

We're booked for 9/22 so will watch all this.

[BoozinCroozin]

The CDC message was fairly clear in that cruises will not be 100% vaccinated. In their own statement, they used an arbitrary number of 5%. I don't know exactly where that came from and may have been pulled from thin air. On the flip side, they could be using cruise line data to extrapolate the number with some for of educated theory. As it is right now, anyone under 16 cannot be vaccinated in the US. That begs the question what percentage of cruisers are under the age of 16? Then, Pfizer is looking for approval for 12-15 year old which at last I hear should come in late May. That gives ~3 week window for that age group to get vaccinated: assume June 1 start date, 3 weeks between 2 dose, and a mid-July start, it gives 3 weeks to be fully vaccinated. 

 

All this adds up to a simple numbers game that will be difficult to be accurate on. 3,000 passengers with 5% not vaccinated translates to 150 passengers. I am going out on a limb saying that is about the average number of under 16 on a cruise. From there, it becomes a legal issue of who gets to make up that 5%. What happens if there are 151 passengers that make up the 3,000. There is no logical or non-discriminatory method to decide which "1" out of the 151 gets booted. These are just examples so everyone in their ivory towers take a seat. Imagine if it is a black family that gets the boot or some 88 year old that can't get the vaccine. The cruise lines will face racial injustice or gentrification lawsuits. 

 

Personally, I think it is easier to manage than some arbitrary number or at least the number be flexible. 

Rile #1: If you are eligible to be vaccinated, you are required to in order to cruise. There are no arguments that vaccines are not available where I live. People don't understand you can go to any state to be vaccinated. It happens here all the time. Waiting in line for vaccines, there are VA and SC plates all over the place. 

Rule #2: If there are underlying medical reasons where you cannot be vaccinated, then those underlying conditions are too severe to cruise. This group needs to wait until they can be vaccinated.

Rule #3: Those that cannot be vaccinated (under 16) agree to submit to covid testing 3 days prior to cruising, daily temperature checks, and mid-cruise covid screening.

 

It's kind of simple. Then, if a cruise has 3,000 passengers, 151 people that fall into Rule #3, then the 95% number is flexible to accommodate.

[K32682]

The final decision will be up to the cruise lines who will need to meet the requirements of the countries they are sailing from and to. Simply because America will permit the unvaccinated does not mean other countries will. 

 

My expectation is: No shirt, no shoes, no shot, no sailing. 🙂

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, grandpalarry777 said:

navybankerteacher. Thanks for the reply. I agree that the whole vaccine, masks, distancing protocols ruin many of the benefits of cruising. Unfortunately, with the CDC apparently not knowing what cruising is, they are doing nothing to help resolve these issues.

 

After all, wasn't the vaccine supposed to save all of us from this impending death sentence? Now it is being said that even with the vaccine you can still contract covid and pass it to others. So much for all the hype from the government and billionaires as to how everyone MUST be vaccinated to save the world.

What have billionaires got to do with it?  What does the CDC not know about cruising? By whom is it being said that being vaccinated will not make significant difference?

[frantic36]

9 hours ago, grandpalarry777 said:

After all, wasn't the vaccine supposed to save all of us from this impending death sentence? Now it is being said that even with the vaccine you can still contract covid and pass it to others. So much for all the hype from the government and billionaires as to how everyone MUST be vaccinated to save the world.

 

I have always thought that the higher the herd immunity with the majority of 75-80% people vaccinated it will be very difficult for Covid to find an appropriate host so the safer you are. Of course the more people that refuse to get vaccinated in the general population the more likely Covid will find a host.

 

The higher the viral load in people surrounding you the more likely you will get infected even with susceptible people who have been vaccinated.

 

This is from my understanding as a retired medical person.

[Coco54]

My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Or were.  We both had covid, and are naturally immune.  We are NOT getting the vaccine.  Why won't they just test people to see if they carry the antibodies. natural immunity is better than vaccines.  We are not antivaccers.  But we are drawing the line on this vaccine.  We are at the point where we are deciding if we will cruise again, if forced to take a vaccine.  There are also people who can not be vaccinated. Government is just getting to be too much of a control freak.  They are terrifying people in to doing what they want. People.  Please do your own research on the virus and the vaccines. Don't listen to the media.  Don't be fearful.  Why shouldn't those people who don't want to cruise because they are afraid, be the ones to choose not to cruise??????  Put the the decision on them, not force people to go against their will.

[frantic36]

6 minutes ago, Coco54 said:

Please do your own research on the virus and the vaccines. Don't listen to the media.  Don't be fearful. 

I have read multiple scientific research papers but I don't do facebook or anti-vaccine sites. I trust the science. I had my first dose last week with no problems and know many others that have had their vaccines including those who have had Covid previously. They want to get out of this dark tunnel and move forward.

Edited April 30, 2021 by frantic36

[CruiserBruce]

17 minutes ago, Coco54 said:

My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Or were.  We both had covid, and are naturally immune.  We are NOT getting the vaccine.  Why won't they just test people to see if they carry the antibodies. natural immunity is better than vaccines.  We are not antivaccers.  But we are drawing the line on this vaccine.  We are at the point where we are deciding if we will cruise again, if forced to take a vaccine.  There are also people who can not be vaccinated. Government is just getting to be too much of a control freak.  They are terrifying people in to doing what they want. People.  Please do your own research on the virus and the vaccines. Don't listen to the media.  Don't be fearful.  Why shouldn't those people who don't want to cruise because they are afraid, be the ones to choose not to cruise??????  Put the the decision on them, not force people to go against their will.

It sounds like you are listening to media that agrees with your point of view, not doing research. If you were doing research, you would find NOBODY knows how long immunity, by "natural" basis, or by vaccine, will last, because Covid is too new. There are documented cases of people that had Covid who had antibodies for as little as 3 months, and some who have had antibodies for close to a year. There won't a scientific answer as to life of antibodies for many years yet.

 

On the other hand, early evidence from vaccines show pretty consistent antibody presence up to at least 6 months. 

[TheOldBear]

28 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

It sounds like you are listening to media that agrees with your point of view, not doing research. If you were doing research, you would find NOBODY knows how long immunity, by "natural" basis, or by vaccine, will last, because Covid is too new. There are documented cases of people that had Covid who had antibodies for as little as 3 months, and some who have had antibodies for close to a year. There won't a scientific answer as to life of antibodies for many years yet.

 

On the other hand, early evidence from vaccines show pretty consistent antibody presence up to at least 6 months. 

I'm going to repeat this yet again. [Most of this was originally dredged up from the NIH site - but I did not save the search results]

 

Antibodies are part of the immune system's short term response [weeks to months]. They are a sign of an in-progress or recent infection.

 

The 'T' and 'Memory B' cells are part of a longer term response. The good news here is that SARS-COV-1 survivors [exposed 18 years ago] show a robust response to SARS-COV-2 [a.k.a. COVID-19].  The mRNA vaccines [and I think the Oxford/AZ vaccine] demonstrated cellular immune responses during their 'phase 2' trials.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, Coco54 said:

Why won't they just test people to see if they carry the antibodies. natural immunity is better than vaccines.  We are not antivaccers.  But we are drawing the line on this vaccine.

 

Where is the proof that natural immunity is better than the vaccines?

 

It could well be that natural immunity protects well against the specific strain YOU encountered, but vaccines may provide better protection against new variants.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Coco54 said:

Why won't they just test people to see if they carry the antibodies. natural immunity is better than vaccines

I'm not sure where you are getting  your information  from, but your source is just plain wrong.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html#:~:text=Yes%2C you should be vaccinated,after recovering from COVID-19.

[klfrodo]

11 hours ago, grandpalarry777 said:

After all, wasn't the vaccine supposed to save all of us from this impending death sentence? 

That was never my understanding.

My understanding from the beginning was that the vaccines were only about 90% effective give or take a few points. 90% does not equal 100% guaranteed.

I'm in my 60's. Even in my young adult days, I understood that getting the flu shot didn't mean I would never get the flu. And "Rona" is much deadlier than the flu.

 

The same goes with any disease and vaccination.

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, Coco54 said:

My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Or were.  We both had covid, and are naturally immune.  We are NOT getting the vaccine.  Why won't they just test people to see if they carry the antibodies. natural immunity is better than vaccines.  We are not antivaccers.  But we are drawing the line on this vaccine.  We are at the point where we are deciding if we will cruise again, if forced to take a vaccine.  There are also people who can not be vaccinated. Government is just getting to be too much of a control freak.  They are terrifying people in to doing what they want. People.  Please do your own research on the virus and the vaccines. Don't listen to the media.  Don't be fearful.  Why shouldn't those people who don't want to cruise because they are afraid, be the ones to choose not to cruise??????  Put the the decision on them, not force people to go against their will.

 

If you were an avid cruiser you would get the vaccine. As for research we have done research. You are listening to the crackpots. Anti science crackpots have existed throughout the ages. You are an antivaxxer. Vaccination is the only way things will return to normal. Antivaxxers like yourself are an impediment to returning to life returning to normal and to cruises returning. 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Coco54 said:

Why shouldn't those people who don't want to cruise because they are afraid, be the ones to choose not to cruise??????  Put the the decision on them, not force people to go against their will.

 

Ever hear the saying "majority rules"?  Every poll I've seen on this topic shows upward of 80% of people WANT cruise lines to require vaccinations.

[clo]

2 hours ago, Coco54 said:

We both had covid, and are naturally immune. 

How do you come up with that? Citation please.

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

How do you come up with that? Citation please.

You'll have a long wait !

[capriccio]

12 hours ago, grandpalarry777 said:

After all, wasn't the vaccine supposed to save all of us from this impending death sentence?

 

The current data shows that if you catch covid after vaccination, it will save you from "an impending death sentence."

 

According to real-world data (source: https://www.wkrn.com/news/cdc-real-world-study-first-to-confirm-vaccines-prevent-severe-covid-illnes/):

 

A real-world study of adults 65 and older confirms that getting a vaccine is a good idea to protect yourself from COVID-19.

 

The study, published Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, found fully vaccinated adults were 94% less likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared to unvaccinated adults in the same age group. People were considered fully vaccinated two weeks after receiving their second dose of the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines. The J&J vaccine was not included in the study.

 

In the same age group, those who were partially vaccinated were 64% less likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who were not vaccinated.

 

The study said its findings are the first real-world evidence showing that mRNA vaccines prevent severe COVID-19 illness.

 

According to clinical trial data (source:  https://reason.com/2021/02/23/vaccines-are-100-effective-at-preventing-covid-19-hospitalizations-and-deaths/)

 

There is even more good news about COVID-19 vaccine efficacy. As LiveScience reports, the Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson clinical trials all found that their vaccines were essentially 100 percent effective in preventing severe disease six to seven weeks after trial participants had received a first/single dose.

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, Coco54 said:

natural immunity is better than vaccines.

 

I just watched an interview with an Indian doctor who got COVID twice in less than a year. The first time was mild, the second time nearly killed him😳.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

You'll have a long wait !

Only if you define long as forever.

[All That Jazz]

Debate. Debate. Debate. To what end? Cruise lines have formulated their policies re vaccination. Comply or don't cruise. If you don't like a particular policy, don't cruise. Of course the policies will evolve over time. Maybe sooner, maybe later. Our cruise line of choice mandates ALL guests are fully vaccinated. No waivers, no favors. We're good with that. For the inquisitive, here's a list of cruise line vaccination policies as of April 16:

https://www.travelandleisure.com/cruises/cruises-that-allow-vaccinated-travelers

 

 

 

[Top_of_the_Cube]

Cruise lines are not having any problems with people standing in line (figuratively) to cruise out of U.S. ports.  Practically speaking, these companies really don't care what you think of their protocols or restrictions as long as they are filling their ships (to whatever degree they are allowed) and staying in business.  I think this is good for everyone, no matter your position on COVID, vaccines, etc.

 

Those that want to cruise NOW regardless of protocols, will apparently get their shot (oops, I mean chance) by mid- to late summer.  Cruise companies will begin to generate cash flow, and folks happy to be guinea pigs (not in any way being pejorative) will help the ships work out their procedures.

 

Those who are still waiting for vaccines for them or their children may not be on the initial sailings (depending on if the CDC is giving exceptions to minors in their 95% cap), but it looks like they won't be too far behind.

 

As for the rest of us, there is no law forcing anyone to get on a ship.  We will be able to wait things out and note what transpires over the next few to several months to see if things become more to our liking.  And, because of those willing to take that cruise now, that increases the chances that there will be cruises in the future when we are ready.  This gives me a chance to remember how much I like vacationing in the mountains (but I prefer cruising).

 

Okay, now, get back to your fighting.