Cruising Without a Vaccination

[lenquixote66]

19 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I don’t think any firm protocols  are in place at this time - personally, I am not likely to cruise until all this is in the past.  Along with vaccine, the contemplated masking requirements, group tours only, distancing on board, etc. remove much of the charm from cruising.

I totally agree.

[lenquixote66]

10 hours ago, Coco54 said:

My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Or were.  We both had covid, and are naturally immune.  We are NOT getting the vaccine.  Why won't they just test people to see if they carry the antibodies. natural immunity is better than vaccines.  We are not antivaccers.  But we are drawing the line on this vaccine.  We are at the point where we are deciding if we will cruise again, if forced to take a vaccine.  There are also people who can not be vaccinated. Government is just getting to be too much of a control freak.  They are terrifying people in to doing what they want. People.  Please do your own research on the virus and the vaccines. Don't listen to the media.  Don't be fearful.  Why shouldn't those people who don't want to cruise because they are afraid, be the ones to choose not to cruise??????  Put the the decision on them, not force people to go against their will.

What happens if you get Covid a second time ?

[Charles4515]

Bottom line is that if you want to cruise you will have to get vaccinated. Someday maybe 2022, or 2023, or 2024.......that requirement hopefully won't be neccesary. The greater the number of antivaxxers or vaccine hesitant or who even those who have a real medical reason who don't get vaccinated the longer it will be before vaccination is not required to cruise. For those who really have a medical reason I feel sorry for you but the greater good takes precedence.Life is not always fair. Encourage everyone you know to get the vaccine so that the vaccine requirement can go away. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

Bottom line is that if you want to cruise you will have to get vaccinated. Someday maybe 2022, or 2023, or 2024.......that requirement hopefully won't be neccesary. The greater the number of antivaxxers or vaccine hesitant or who even those who have a real medical reason who don't get vaccinated the longer it will be before vaccination is not required to cruise. For those who really have a medical reason I feel sorry for you but the greater good takes precedence.Life is not always fair. Encourage everyone you know to get the vaccine so that the vaccine requirement can go away. 

Seriously, would anyone with, at least, “half a brain” want to cruise with a cruiseline that puts catering to antivaxxers just to get their $ (with weak rules interpretation) ahead of science (and the lessons already learned from the start of this Covid mess)?

[Toofarfromthesea]

14 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Where is the proof that natural immunity is better than the vaccines?

 

It could well be that natural immunity protects well against the specific strain YOU encountered, but vaccines may provide better protection against new variants.

When did "it could well be" become science?

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

When did "it could well be" become science?

Actually, “science” might consider the phrase “it could well be” to be part of the development of a working hypothesis (i.e., a provisional conjecture to guide investigation).

[cruisemom42]

7 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

When did "it could well be" become science?

 

Being of a scientific bent, I don't speak in absolutes until we are quite sure of something. 

 

However, I can point you to a recent study conducted at UC Irvine -- still pending review -- that 

the mRNA vaccines in use appear to be remarkably effective at elevating (antibody) levels against SARS-CoV-2 antigens. According to the authors, the level and breadth of protection induced by these mRNA vaccines “is much greater than that induced by natural infection.”

After the second mRNA shot, vaccinated people had antibody levels up to 10 times higher than what was found in convalescent plasma from people who recovered from natural infection, the researchers found.

 

Added bonus: The mRNA vaccines also allow the immune system to recognize other novel coronavirus strains, offering hope that vaccination will be effective against emerging virus variants that are circulating around the world, they said.

 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.full.pdf

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Being of a scientific bent, I don't speak in absolutes until we are quite sure of something. 

 

However, I can point you to a recent study conducted at UC Irvine -- still pending review -- that 

the mRNA vaccines in use appear to be remarkably effective at elevating (antibody) levels against SARS-CoV-2 antigens. According to the authors, the level and breadth of protection induced by these mRNA vaccines “is much greater than that induced by natural infection.”

After the second mRNA shot, vaccinated people had antibody levels up to 10 times higher than what was found in convalescent plasma from people who recovered from natural infection, the researchers found.

 

Added bonus: The mRNA vaccines also allow the immune system to recognize other novel coronavirus strains, offering hope that vaccination will be effective against emerging virus variants that are circulating around the world, they said.

 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.full.pdf

Just to add to all the information you just provided, do not skip your second shot.

 

Why You Shouldn’t Skip Your Second Covid Shot (msn.com)

[K32682]

Among the side benefits of a mandatory vaccine requirement is not having to cruise with people who are buying into fake science about natural immunity and other wingnut conspiracy theories. One of the first hints is when people declare they are not anti-vaxxers then proceed to tell you why they aren't getting the vaccine and why you shouldn't either. Leaving them on shore sounds good to me.    

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by K32682

[navybankerteacher]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:59 AM, Charles4515 said:

 

If you were an avid cruiser you would get the vaccine. As for research we have done research. You are listening to the crackpots. Anti science crackpots have existed throughout the ages. You are an antivaxxer. Vaccination is the only way things will return to normal. Antivaxxers like yourself are an impediment to returning to life returning to normal and to cruises returning. 

The anti-vaxxers seem to believe that the only valid "research" is done by reading what other anti-vaxxers have to say;  they uniformly dismiss the reports/recommendations of public health and medical professionals who overwhelmingly recommend vaccination.

 

They repeat the mantra "do your own research"  --- while studiously avoiding legitimate sources of information.

Edited May 1, 2021 by navybankerteacher

[slidergirl]

Those who do not want to get vaccinated would be best served to cruise out of Florida when it starts up.  The Governor has signed an Executive Order which mandates that no business may require proof of vaccination.  Now, we'll have to wait to see what happens there.  Any of the cruise companies with HQs in Florida would be under this EO, I would think.  Just like when the Governor was refusing to take in the COVID ships, this could end up being an "interesting" battle between state and federal issues at a port. 

[CruiserBruce]

33 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Those who do not want to get vaccinated would be best served to cruise out of Florida when it starts up.  The Governor has signed an Executive Order which mandates that no business may require proof of vaccination.  Now, we'll have to wait to see what happens there.  Any of the cruise companies with HQs in Florida would be under this EO, I would think.  Just like when the Governor was refusing to take in the COVID ships, this could end up being an "interesting" battle between state and federal issues at a port. 

Going to be an issue when one or more of those ports the Florida based ships stop at require vaccination...

[neverbeenhere]

For those using facts, please stop! Conjecture, guesses, and witchcraft are so much more comforting.

Edited May 1, 2021 by neverbeenhere
MACA- Make America Cruise Again. 😀

[LHT28]

On 4/30/2021 at 8:47 AM, Coco54 said:

My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Or were.  We both had covid, and are naturally immune.  We are NOT getting the vaccine.  Why won't they just test people to see if they carry the antibodies. natural immunity is better than vaccines. 

Are you positive you are immune??

 I have seen reports of people getting Covid twice  

One lady got it about 6 mths after she recovered from  the first  bout with Covid

 

 

[Toofarfromthesea]

13 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Being of a scientific bent, I don't speak in absolutes until we are quite sure of something. 

 

However, I can point you to a recent study conducted at UC Irvine -- still pending review -- that 

the mRNA vaccines in use appear to be remarkably effective at elevating (antibody) levels against SARS-CoV-2 antigens. According to the authors, the level and breadth of protection induced by these mRNA vaccines “is much greater than that induced by natural infection.”

After the second mRNA shot, vaccinated people had antibody levels up to 10 times higher than what was found in convalescent plasma from people who recovered from natural infection, the researchers found.

 

Added bonus: The mRNA vaccines also allow the immune system to recognize other novel coronavirus strains, offering hope that vaccination will be effective against emerging virus variants that are circulating around the world, they said.

 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.full.pdf

I can see it now:

The CDC announced today that they are not yet ready to relax mask wearing requirements. Dr. Fauci explained the decision, "Careful analysis has determined that there is still one person who has not been vaccinated, so out of an abundance of caution we are maintaining our mask requirements".

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

Are you positive you are immune??

 I have seen reports of people getting Covid twice  

One lady got it about 6 mths after she recovered from  the first  bout with Covid

 

 

My Parkinson’s therapist got Covid in August 2020 and again in January 2021 as did her husband.A former neighbor of mine hot Covid in May 2020 and in Feb.2021 as did one of his daughters.

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

My Parkinson’s therapist got Covid in August 2020 and again in January 2021 as did her husband.A former neighbor of mine hot Covid in May 2020 and in Feb.2021 as did one of his daughters.

Hope they recovered without any lasting effects

 

[wowzz]

Interesting that the OP seems to have disappeared without trace. 

Perhaps we can let this thread just wither and die.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

Interesting that the OP seems to have disappeared without trace. 

Perhaps we can let this thread just wither and die.

Of course the chance that the ignorantsia (opposite of intelligentsia) stand a fair chance of learning (too late) how fatal covid is  -- and a fair number of them may also wither and die

[clo]

7 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Are you positive you are immune??

 

I had asked this; not sure if it was the same poster. But didn't get a reply. i feel sorry for anyone who believes this and doesn't take the proper precautions.

[lenquixote66]

30 minutes ago, clo said:

I had asked this; not sure if it was the same poster. But didn't get a reply. i feel sorry for anyone who believes this and doesn't take the proper precautions.

Many of the people that they follow do things privately that they do not do publicly.

[Hlitner]

A long career in the government healthcare sector taught me not to waste much effort arguing with anit-vaxers or doubters.  I figure they are grownups and must make and live with their own decisions.  But the reality is that if one wants to freely travel and/or cruise in the near future being vaccinated is often the only solution.  A good example is an upcoming cruise we have on Seabourn where being fully vaccinated is mandatory.  It is similar for those cruising on Crystal and quite a few other lines.  

 

Now, as to immunity the truth is that there are no certainties with COVID.  According to the CDC's own data about 1 in 14,000 vaccinated folks (this number will constantly change as more data is captured) will be a "breakthrough" case and get COVID.   In my world those are pretty darn good odds that favor being vaccinated vs taking one's chances.   And you might also consider that of those few "breakthroughs" about 90% of the cases have been relatively minor not requiring hospitalization.  

 

Public health policy has never been about absolute certainty but simply about improving the odds of favorable outcomes.  The two mRNA-based vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) are miraculous developments and offer almost unheard of efficacy (for new vaccines).  Any logical analysis using math makes getting either of these vaccines a no-brainer.   I would only add that those younger folks who only cite COVID death statistics are usually ignoring the much more common long term (and even permanent) morbidities attributed to having had COVID.  Ask a person who will be spending the rest of their life on dialysis, who lost a leg, have badly scarred lungs, etc. if they wish they had been able to be vaccinated before getting COVID.

 

Hank

[nascarcruiser]

So my sister and her husband both work in the health care industry.   They both had Covid19 twice. They both say there are too many of my questions that can't be answered, therefore they don't feel comfortable tell my parents or us to get the vaccine.  The chance of dying from Covid19 is 1%.  We flew to Cozumel in January with our doctor saying as long as we took the normal precautions we were fine to travel. We both have autoimmune issues.  The doctor said they were comfortable with us using our own discretion about if we wanted the vaccine or not.  At this point there is not enough evidence of long term effects or how often it needs to be given (like the flu shot once a year)for us to get a vaccine that has only been approved for emergency use.   I'm not saying we won't get it at some point but for now we are opting out.  When we were in Cozumel in January,  we felt more comfortable with the protocols they had in place than the ones in the US.  And before any one says we are antivaxxers,  you couldn't be further from the truth.  

[Flatbush Flyer]

43 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

..... I figure they are grownups and must make and live with their own decisions... 

The only problem I have with you post is that it is “US” who, on some future cruise, have to live with their decisions and possibly suffer dire consequences because of them.

[krittykat]

On 4/30/2021 at 5:47 AM, Coco54 said:

My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Or were.  We both had covid, and are naturally immune.  We are NOT getting the vaccine.  Why won't they just test people to see if they carry the antibodies. natural immunity is better than vaccines.  We are not antivaccers.  But we are drawing the line on this vaccine.  We are at the point where we are deciding if we will cruise again, if forced to take a vaccine.  There are also people who can not be vaccinated. Government is just getting to be too much of a control freak.  They are terrifying people in to doing what they want. People.  Please do your own research on the virus and the vaccines. Don't listen to the media.  Don't be fearful.  Why shouldn't those people who don't want to cruise because they are afraid, be the ones to choose not to cruise??????  Put the the decision on them, not force people to go against their will.

They have done studies in those who have had Covid 19. The antibodies that you get after having the infection can dissipate after as little as 3 months. You can get re infected despite having it once.  So the idea of having had the disease, is not a "green light".